If a photon is traveling at the speed of light, wouldn't infinite mass and energy be a condition?
The thread was pretty useless, the lock was reasonable and re-opening it would surprise me greatly. Any time you have to use a "really" or "actually" in your question it is probably a non-scientific question, especially if you feel that you have to italicize or otherwise emphasize the word in order to properly ask the question.This is precisely what I was investigating in this thread which has now been locked because someone put a very strange connotation on my "prove me wrong", which merely expressed a hope rather than a challenge. I have asked that the thread be reopened.
better to get it nutted out once and for all in one thread otherwise this forum will have endlessly questions likeIn my experience threads with titles of the form "What is X?", where X is a single word basic physics concept, generally wind up being locked with one or more of the participants being banned. I am glad that the moderators locked it before it got to that point.
ceaselessly posted by lay persons.Makes you wonder what light really is.
QED explains interactions, not photons.We know exactly what light is. Quantum electrodynamics completely describes every aspect of light.
When an investigation into 'what is matter', which had some good replies and to which I was about to offer a considered response, is deemed unsuitable for a physics forum as it is beyond the abilities of the moderators to stop such a contentious question collapsing into peace shattering conflagration, then one may wonder what the point is of allowing the general public to participate at all. This is most disappointing.In my experience threads with titles of the form "What is X?", where X is a single word basic physics concept, generally wind up being locked with one or more of the participants being banned. I am glad that the moderators locked it before it got to that point.
Since observations are interactions, and all of physics is about interactions, I'm not sure what kind of an explanation you want if the one offered by QED is not acceptable.QED explains interactions, not photons.
I guess you subscribe to the idea of; "shut up and calculate." Or "light is light", or "gravity is gravity."
Keep on calculating, have fun.
QED explains everything about light. There is not one single behavior or experimental observation about light which is not accurately predicted by QED.QED explains interactions, not photons.
But this is an answer to a classical question but a photon is a quantum object. This in essence is the problem is it not.Light is light. As with anything, it is the compilation of all of its properties.
If one good thread were enough to end a topic "once and for all" then we wouldn't continue to see the daily thread on a photons rest frame, the weekly thread on the twin paradox, the monthly thread on FTL communication with a rigid rod, or the quarterly thread on something fast turning into a black hole.better to get it nutted out once and for all in one thread otherwise this forum will have endlessly questions like ...
Any time you have to use a "really" or "actually" in your question it is probably a non-scientific question, especially if you feel that you have to italicize or otherwise emphasize the word in order to properly ask the question.
Thank you for illustrating my point so completely.Which brings us right back to the real problem, which is comparing a quantum object to a classical object. To ask what a classical object is, is a perfectly acceptable question. What is a baseball, or what is a mountain. Most people will be satisfied with the answer. However the scientist is willing to answer the question, 'what is a baseball REALLY', by saying that REALLY, it is in fact a collection of up and down quarks and electrons, plus a couple of forces that hold them all together.
There is no problem with the word 'really' in this case.
It only gets the mentors all hot and bothered if one asks, but what is a quark 'really', this 'really' is really a pain and causes all sorts of huffing an puffing.
Ironically, because one of the foundations that all science is built on it the principle of relativity. What is relative and what is absolute needs to be considered when using the word 'reality'.
This is why it is preposterous for a science advisor on these boards to complain about being asked 'what is matter, or what is a photon, really (even if the 'really' is not italicised).
You see the concepts of 'relative' and 'absolute' are also applicable to terms like 'reality' or 'real'. Is a photon 'real'. No one seems to consider the question is really about what is meant by 'real'. I think what we mean by real in this context is, what is 'absolutely' real.
That is for example if I use a photon. Is a photon absolutely real. Asked like this it is a perfectly acceptable question. I suppose the next question is what does it mean to be absolutely real. And that would be as the speed of light is absolutely real because it's speed is not dependent on anything else, then for something to BE absolutely real, then 'be' means 'exists', so the question is, does a photon exist absolutely, or does it's existence depend on the existence of something else.
That's what we really want to know, when we ask 'what is matter'. Science reduces atoms to protons and protons to quarks, so atoms depend on the existence of protons and protons depend on the existence of quarks, and I suppose electromagnetic radiation may or may not depend on the existence of something else in order for itself to exist.
No I'm trying my best to keep this out of the realm of metaphysics because then I'll get a slap. However, the scientists started it all by reducing objects to things that are dipping their toes into the pool of metaphysical notions in fact maybe even wading in to the deep end.
Is there anything that is absolutely 'real', meaning that exists independently of anything else. Surely that's an OK question here. Otherwise why don't you put up a big disclaimer that says... "look we really don't have the faintest clue what any of this stuff that we study is, we can predict how it behaves and that enables us to build this big a55 five story high detectors and it's pretty much a lot of fun but in the end we are just amusing ourselves with the amazingness of it all, and you people out there should be content with your cars and computers and digital painting programs and microwave background plotting, that enrich your lives and which are the final products of our investigations.
If we know what light is then surely it's OK to ask, 'what is light made of'. QED predicts how it interacts and behaves, but what is it made of. That's what the general public wishes to know. Are you going to tell people. "you can't ask what's it made of, it's a stupid question". To which one could postulate that there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.QED explains everything about light. There is not one single behavior or experimental observation about light which is not accurately predicted by QED.
If you can predict in detail what a given thing will do in every possible situation or interaction or relationship then you know what that thing is in the fullest sense of the word. Hence, we know exactly what light is.
Ok Dale, draw a line in the sand for me. Where does science end and metaphysics begin. Are virtual particles metaphysics or science. Is 11 dimensional space, simply mathematics, metaphysics or science. Is asking what is a gluon made of allowed or not allowed.Thank you for illustrating my point so completely.
Science ends where experiments end. If a question cannot be answered through experimental observation then it is not a scientific question.Ok Dale, draw a line in the sand for me. Where does science end and metaphysics begin.
OK what about the virtual photons that swarm around a travelling electron. 1. Is there an experiment of any kind that can detect them. 2. Can they be considered a part of an electron, or a different thing than a electron. Or are they just a mathematical abstraction that nevertheless gives the right answers. 3. Is 'virtual' a part of their name, or is it somehow meant to convey they have a degree of 'reality' but not to the extent of non virtual photons.Photons.
Light is made up of ordinary photons, not virtual photons.OK what about the virtual photons that swarm around a travelling electron.
Virtual photons have experimentally testable consequences, although by definition they are not themselves directly observed. I will post some references in the morning.1. Is there an experiment of any kind that can detect them.
All correct physics theories are mathematical abstractions that give right answers. But electrons are fermions and photons are bosons, they are not the same thing and each is fundamental.2. Can they be considered a part of an electron, or a different thing than a electron. Or are they just a mathematical abstraction that nevertheless gives the right answers.
How would you propose to experimentally test the "degree of reality" of something?3. Is 'virtual' a part of their name, or is it somehow meant to convey they have a degree of 'reality' but not to the extent of non virtual photons.