News Iran & US Friendship

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Perham

why should we fight? if we shouldn't, why we are fighting each other?
in your opinion, in what circumstances will Iran and US trust each other, and help each other in common problems and issues? why we have such a dark picture of Iran in US and US in Iran? can't we solve old problems?
 

Astronuc

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why should we fight? if we shouldn't, why we are fighting each other?
in your opinion, in what circumstances will Iran and US trust each other, and help each other in common problems and issues? why we have such a dark picture of Iran in US and US in Iran? can't we solve old problems?
One could write a book, and in fact many people have, on such questions.

Basically there is a competition for control and influence in the world, and the political and economic leaderships of both country are acting in belligerent manners.

Certainly leaders like Bush and Ahmadenijad and there coarse rhetoric inflame the situation.

One could go back to the 1950's and the Anglo-American lead coup that toppled the Iranian government and democratically-elected administration of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq and his cabinet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

It would help if Iran was more democratic, and it would help if the US was more democratic and had responsible political leadership.

The role of Islam in the political system is problematic for the secular west, especially when some fundamentalists are calling for violent action (jihad) against the west.

Then there is the historical conflict between Shii and Sunni, which must be resolved peacefully - but is that possible.

And then there is the issue of Israel and Palestine, which must also be resolved peacefully, but how?
 

mjsd

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why should we fight? if we shouldn't, why we are fighting each other?
in your opinion, in what circumstances will Iran and US trust each other, and help each other in common problems and issues?
Astronuc has highlighted some of the key issues.

but I would like to add that conflicts in the world is inevitable as long as there are
jealousy, hate and greed....etc. :frown:

as far as the Iran vs US situation, now Bush is using the word "World War 3"... oh my god!

why we have such a dark picture of Iran in US and US in Iran? can't we solve old problems?
why those two disagree with each other and indeed other problems in the world? it all traces back to one word... religion
(if you don't agree with my assessment, well... I would like to hear your side of the story)

cheers
 
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I've kind of gotten over the large crowds of people shouting feverously with fist thrusting in the air..............

DEATH TO AMERICA
DEATH TO AMERICA
DEATH TO AMERICA
DEATH TO AMERICA
DEATH TO AMERICA
DEATH TO AMERICA

I want to give them all a big hug now.

Bush and Ahmadenijad both make me sick. Why can't we all just get along?
 

russ_watters

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You want to hug someone who is chanting "death to america"?!? Good luck with that!
 

mjsd

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the problem is the people who USE religions, not religions themselves.
I think you 've got what I was saying.... :smile:

religion is a very powerful force, that's why Communism does not tolerate it. Religion can be good in many aspects of life but when ppl disagree it can be deadly as well. Over centuries, it was (and still is) an impetus for ppl to hate each other. All groups wish to continue to speard their powers/influence (for goods or not) so that they can continue to exist. But inevitably, different groups (as they grow) will eventually interact and conflict may then arise.

for many ppl, their moral ideals (what is right/wrong) come from their religion, and often moral ideals or what they meant by "justice" dictate their actions (whether they are "controlled"/brainwashed by powerful religious leaders or not).
 
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! more than 10 thousand American soldiers died in Iraq, more in Vietnam and other recent wars. who's responsible for these lives? how could you vote these vampires to become presidents?!
Actually the number of American deaths in Iraq is close to 4000 and 50000 Americans died in Vietnam. It will be a while before the Iraq equals Vietnam.

However the questions about the vampires is a good one. Just remember Hitler was voted in.
 

EnumaElish

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who's responsible for these lives? how could you vote these vampires to become presidents?!
Iran was a side to the bloodiest, longest war in some time which was very bloody and really long. Tens of thousands perished; including Iranian child soldiers who should have been in school but were sent to invade Iraqi minefields. If you have double standards, be honest and say so. If you don't, then face the implications of your statement.
 
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mjsd

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Actually the number of American deaths in Iraq is close to 4000 and 50000 Americans died in Vietnam. It will be a while before the Iraq equals Vietnam.
we have to also realise that due to technological and medical advancement, war casualities would be a lot lower now than in the past. having said that, each human lives should be valued and not treated as mere numbers.... so whether it is 300 or 3000, we should not, for any moment, think that it is OK or BETTER to have 300 instead of 3000 kills, otherwise, we are really implying that a small loss of lives is acceptable.
 

Astronuc

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jealousy, hate and greed....etc. :frown:
Certainly those are key problems, and always have been.

it all traces back to one word... religion
(if you don't agree with my assessment, well... I would like to hear your side of the story)
It's not so much religion as a corruption of religion, which includes hypocrisy.


What is it about religion? Well religion is about people - lots of them. And with multitudes of people comes the temptation to 'control' those people, or at least influence them, for personal gain, or vanity (egotism).

Looking at the religious and political leaders who espouse violence, there is not much of a difference, and those who promote violence use their religosity as a facade, and that includes Ahmadenijad and Bush.
 

russ_watters

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However the questions about the vampires is a good one. Just remember Hitler was voted in.
That's kinda misleading since Hitler siezed power far beyond what was given to him when elected.
 
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Until Israel can come to an agreement with its neighbours and stop just accusing everyone of being evil terrorists there will be no middle ground with US - Iran relations becasue the US pretty much does Israels bidding in middle eastern issues. The whole nuclear issue is a fallacy, even if Iran launched ten nukes tomorrow they would not get half way to the US before intercepted, and Iran and its entire population would be annexed back to the stone age by Israel and the US within minutes. Ahmedinijad is an idiot, but he's not completely stupid.

Thats the other issue, Irans hate for israel is just as much as Israels hate for Iran. If those two countries dont resolve their differences soon i fear we will be seeing nuckear srikes on Iran from Israel, which isn't going to do world stability much good.
 

Art

That's kinda misleading since Hitler siezed power far beyond what was given to him when elected.
I'm curious exactly what powers did Hitler seize that weren't handed to him on foot of a vote??
 
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RETORIC............... we are full of it, I'll look in the mirror if you do.

................................................................................

"So I told people that if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested" in ensuring Iran not gain the capacity to develop such weapons. "I take the threat of Iran with a nuclear weapon very seriously,"

~ President George W. Bush


..............................................................................

"U.S. policy must be clear and unequivocal: We cannot, we should not, we must not permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons. In dealing with this threat, no option can be taken off the table."

~ Senator Hillary Clinton

.................................................................................

The world must work to stop Iran’s uranium enrichment program and prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. It is far too dangerous to have nuclear weapons in the hands of a radical theocracy. And while we should take no option, including military action, off the table, sustained and aggressive diplomacy combined with tough sanctions should be our primary means to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons.

~ Senator Barack Obama

.....................................................................................

Diplomacy, Not War, With Iran
By Bill Richardson
Saturday, February 24, 2007; Page A19

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022301595.html
Saber-rattling is not a good way to get the Iranians to cooperate.....................

A better approach would be for the United States to engage directly with the Iranians and to lead a global diplomatic offensive to prevent them from building nuclear weapons. We need tough, direct negotiations, not just with Iran but also with our allies, especially Russia, to get them to support us in presenting Iran with credible carrots and sticks.

No nation has ever been forced to renounce nuclear weapons, but many have chosen to do so. The Iranians will not end their nuclear program because we threaten them and call them names. They will renounce nukes because we convince them that they will be safer and more prosperous if they do that than if they don't. This feat will take more than threats and insults. It will take skillful American diplomatic leadership.
Click the link to read the whole Washington Post article authored by Bill Richardson .

http://www.richardsonforpresident.com/home [Broken]

There is a difference.......................Bill Richardson in 2008.
 
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EnumaElish

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Until Israel can come to an agreement with its neighbours and stop just accusing everyone of being evil terrorists there will be no middle ground with US - Iran relations becasue the US pretty much does Israels bidding in middle eastern issues. The whole nuclear issue is a fallacy, even if Iran launched ten nukes tomorrow they would not get half way to the US before intercepted, and Iran and its entire population would be annexed back to the stone age by Israel and the US within minutes. Ahmedinijad is an idiot, but he's not completely stupid.
So what's stopping Iran from denouncing violence against Israel? Could it be because being the champions of jihad is the Iranian government's major chance of long-term survival, domestically? Otherwise, why would Iran be trying so hard to outdo Prophet Mohammad's ("peace upon him") people as international champions of Islam?
 
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drankin

I heard an interview of a Mr (insert Iranian name here), some former dignitary, and he says that the young adults of Iran are on the verge of a revolution. All they need is a catalyst in the form of moral support from the US, nothing more, and Iran will change itself from within. The old ways of Iranian dictatorship and hardline religion are going away. The new generation over there, thanks to education and worldwide communication, are ready to run the show.

Interesting if this is true. It would explain Bush's recent democracy pep talk towards the Iranian people in his speech.

Things could rock over there without much involvement from the US if this is accurate.
 
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That is the problem, If any action is taken against Iran we will end up in another non existent WMD situation, and we will find out actually Iran was not making a bomb (like they have maintained all along).

The only reason that Iran might want a bomb in the first place is becasue we have sold Israel hundreds of nuclear warheads in the past, and Iran feels threatened by Israel. Ahmedinijad never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map, the closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". Barely a day goes by that one can avoid reading or hearing yet another Israeli, American or British warhawk regurgitate the broken record that Iran's President Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off the map," framed in the ridiculous context that Israelis are being targeted for a second holocaust (when in reality only Israel has the capability to do that to Iran, not Iran to Israel).

To claim Ahmadinejad has issued a rallying cry to ethnically cleanse Israel is akin to saying that Churchill wanted to murder all Germans when he stated his desire to crush the Nazis. This is about the demise of a corrupt occupying power, not the deaths of millions of innocent people. Neither side really wants that.

Edit; I read this today in which an official close to Cheyney suggests that an Israeli attack on Iran is part of the wider middle eastern plan; http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/66157 i dont think that would do world stability any good considering russias position on Iran.
 
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and who said we don't have democracy here?!
The Supreme Leader appoints the 6 mullahs of the Guardian Council as well as the head of the judicial system, who nominates the remaining 6 members of the Council. Thus the Supreme Leader has both direct and indirect control over the Council that [EDIT] elects and removes [/EDIT] him. The Council of Guardians also disqualifies candidates to both elected bodies, and they have repeatedly done so when they perceived reformists as obtaining too much power.

this is not fair. what you're getting from your medias are almost lies to make Iran another big enemy for your people, to make them pay they're taxes, and keep away their thoughts from the problems in your country that will someday project themselves to your eyes.
all they want is power, and they're getting it by the evilest way possible. they're hiding truth and give lies instead of truth to world people.
One can say the exact same about the Iranian leadership.
 
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The only reason that Iran might want a bomb in the first place is becasue we have sold Israel hundreds of nuclear warheads in the past, and Iran feels threatened by Israel.
Israel never procured nuclear material or knowledge from the US.

Ahmedinijad never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map, the closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
Oh, that makes it okay then.
 
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Oh, that makes it okay then.
no, i am just pointing out that contrary to popular opinion Ahmedinijad does not hate Israeli's, he is always very specific that it is Zionism that he opposes. And since Zionism is basically a rascist ideology, i think that he is entitled to not like Israels Zionist regime. The idea that Iran would attack Israel unprovoked is stupid, Before Iran had a chance Israel (and the US, UK, etc) would destroy it ten times over within minutes.

Most of the slightly provocative statements Ahmedinijad makes are only made so he can keep his popular support with the people, and statements like that do very well to keep oil prices very high, as every time the risk of war increases, so does the price of oil.
The middle east is a very complex situation, but it does seem that most of the middle eastern issues have one common factor; Israel.
 

Art

The Supreme Leader appoints the 6 mullahs of the Guardian Council as well as the head of the judicial system, who nominates the remaining 6 members of the Council. Thus the Supreme Leader has both direct and indirect control over the Council that [EDIT] elects and removes [/EDIT] him. The Council of Guardians also disqualifies candidates to both elected bodies, and they have repeatedly done so when they perceived reformists as obtaining too much power.


One can say the exact same about the Iranian leadership.
It seems they used the US system as a model then? Presidential appointment of unelected officials and ratification by a party political congress.
 

Art

Israel never procured nuclear material or knowledge from the US.
lol Hmm as a statement of fact this is true but it doesn't tell the real story. You should really have spelled out that Israel did indeed receive nuclear secrets and material from the US - just not legally.

Although the French supplied the original reactor, most of the fuel and the know-how with some help from the British, Israel did illegally obtain enriched uranium in 1965 from NUMEC Corporation in the US and in 1985 Richard Smyth, the owner of MILCO, was indicted on charges of smuggling nuclear timing devices to Israel.

Then of course in a long list of Israeli spies operating in the US there was Jonathon Pollard who alone amongst many such spies is reckoned to have passed on 800,000 pages of confidential information to Israel.

btw do you not find it slightly duplicitous that Iran should be threatened with destruction on the basis of it's nuclear program and it's suspected non-compliance with the IAEA with Israel leading the call to arms whilst Israel has always point blank refused to let the IAEA have so much as a sniff of it's own nuclear program.
 
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I'm curious exactly what powers did Hitler seize that weren't handed to him on foot of a vote??
He was appointed chancellor based on political pressure and by his party and SA murdering political opponents, at which point he began subversively consolidating powers into his cabinet, dissolving parliament etc. For example Hitler's government seized legislative powers via the enabling act. Then when president Hindenberg died, Hitler's cabinet legislatively supressed new presidential elections and proclaimed Hitler to be the new Fuhrer of Germany. Hitler wasn't ever actually voted in, that's the thing. As is his personal philosophy, his entire rise to supreme power was dictatorially seized.
 

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