Iranian Earthquake

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Monique
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I can't believe the news everytime I hear these things.. they say 20,000 were killed in the Bam Earthquake.. and a major Iranian cultural heritage was destoyed at the same time (2000 yr old citadel).
 

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  • #2
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Together with the items destroyed and stolen from Baghdad's museum during the invasion, we have all lost a lot of irreplacable things. A great chunk of our history is gone.
 
  • #3
russ_watters
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Originally posted by Adam
Together with the items destroyed and stolen from Baghdad's museum during the invasion....
You must have missed the retraction of that story. The museum curator was misquoted. The vast majority of the items reported lost (some 20,000) were in a vault in a sewer. Most of the rest were in the homes of the museum workers.

And yeah, Monique - sometimes we forget how good we have it in the west. 20,000 is not an unusual number of deaths for a decent sized earthquake in the 3rd world. In the US last week an almost identical quake killed TWO.
 
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  • #4
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Iran is a 3rd world nation?
 
  • #5
Originally posted by russ_watters
You must have missed the retraction of that story. The museum curator was misquoted. The vast majority of the items reported lost (some 20,000) were in a vault in a sewer. Most of the rest were in the homes of the museum workers.
Stories are often retracted after pressure from the government. This may not be the same case, but I would not be surprised if it were true. US soldiers looting Iraqi museum does not make Bush look good, so a retraction may have been necessary to maintain the status quo.
 
  • #6
Monique
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Didn't we have some members from Iran?
 
  • #8
member 5645
Originally posted by Carlos Hernandez
Stories are often retracted after pressure from the government. This may not be the same case, but I would not be surprised if it were true. US soldiers looting Iraqi museum does not make Bush look good, so a retraction may have been necessary to maintain the status quo.
The retraction holds just as much weight as the initial story, and unless we have proof of a coverup, it holds more.

Why dont you guys ever drop the constant conspiracy theories, and simply acknowledge that this was a horrible loss of life (instead of another chance for you to get on your soapbox about how evil the US is). I personally hope that this event is a reminder of how good we have it. I hope temporary drop on sanction to Iran for donations of aid and support is used to it's fullest extent.

Agencies helping can be found on the right side of this article:
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/1203/31iranquake.html [Broken]
 
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  • #9
russ_watters
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Originally posted by Carlos Hernandez
Stories are often retracted after pressure from the government. This may not be the same case, but I would not be surprised if it were true. US soldiers looting Iraqi museum does not make Bush look good, so a retraction may have been necessary to maintain the status quo.
Heh, US soldiers? You misread the story. There was never any allegation of that from anywhere (however, I can't say I've checked every conspiracy theory site - I'm talking about the mainstream press story).
Why dont you guys ever drop the constant conspiracy theories, and simply acknowledge that this was a horrible loss of life (instead of another chance for you to get on your soapbox about how evil the US is).
Yeah, I really hate how every thread turns into a 'the US is evil' thread. 20,000+ people died in an earthquake - but wait, thats not important, the US is evil! And those evil bastards sent rescue teams. Bastards.
 
  • #10
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Yeah. Looks like a developing nation to me.

http://www.iranmania.com/travel/communications/default.asp [Broken]
http://www.iranmania.com/travel/tours/The_Ancient.asp [Broken]
http://www.iranmania.com/travel/tours/The_Blue_Dome_Tour.asp [Broken]
http://www.iranmania.com/travel/tours/from_susa_to_isfahan.asp [Broken]
http://www.iranmania.com/travel/tours/The_%20Rays%20_of_Splendour.asp [Broken]
http://www.iranmania.com/travel/tours/The_South_Tour.asp [Broken]
http://www.iranmania.com/travel/tours/The_Great_Culture_tour.asp [Broken]
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http://www.iranmania.com/travel/tours/The_Symphony_Of_Colours_Tour.asp [Broken]
http://www.iranmania.com/travel/tours/The_Hidden_Beauty_Tour.asp [Broken]

Iran was a "developing nation" six thousand years ago. Good grief. The ignorance of some people is astronishing.
 
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  • #11
kat
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Originally posted by Adam


Iran was a "developing nation" six thousand years ago. Good grief. The ignorance of some people is astronishing.
I agree the ignorance...particularly that which is displayed in the tone that some people use in regards to others..is astonishing.


anywhooo.

It seems that there are some, who one would assume are in the "know", that would disagree with you...

Presenting....



MR. MEHDI MOLLAHOSSEINI,
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN
TO THE UNITED NATIONS,
AT THE 25TH SESSION OF THE COMMITTEE ON INFORMATION
29 APRIL 2003

Maintaining and improving the activities of the DPI in the areas of the special interest to developing countries is very important for us as a developing country.
http://www.un.org/ga/coi/statements03/iran.htm [Broken]

OOPS! What's wrong with those people! How come they don't know what YOU know Adam! It's a global travesty! Oh My Gawds! I just can't believe it!
 
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  • #12
russ_watters
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Originally posted by Adam
Yeah. Looks like a developing nation to me.

Iran was a "developing nation" six thousand years ago. Good grief. The ignorance of some people is astronishing.
Its pretty simple, Adam. The terms "third world" and "developing" are referring to industrialization. Iran is not a fully-industrialized nation.

Anyway, to get this back to the topic of the earthquake (sorta), have you guys seen THIS. It seems what I posted yesterday sarcastically is coming out of the mouths of Iranian leaders in all seriousness today.
"once again demonstrated that America's interfering and hostile policy against Iran has not altered at all."
So planeloads of aid workers and medical supplies are a manifestation of our hostility? Frankly, this is a validation of what I and others (Bush) have been saying all along. The government (specifically, the clerics who are really in control) is motivated soley by blind hatred toward the US. They endeavour to keep their populace under control through fear and hatred of us. Fortunately they are failing, but its no wonder Iran is/was a hotbed of terrorism. Its their rallying point.
 
  • #13
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Well, I am very surprised that an Iranian would refer to Iran in such a way.

Iran and USA have almost identical life expectancy. Similar population growth rate. The USA has six times as many (by percentage) people infected with HIV. USA has higher literacy (dropping by the year). Iran has a higher GDP growth rate. USA has better rates for poverty and unemployment. Iran has an undustrial growth rate of 5.5%, while the USA has -0.4%.

Yep, you're right. Iran is getting better, while the USA is getting worse. I guess the fact that the state is improving does make it a developing nation. The same must then apply to Australia.
 
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  • #14
Originally posted by russ_watters
Heh, US soldiers? You misread the story. There was never any allegation of that from anywhere (however, I can't say I've checked every conspiracy theory site - I'm talking about the mainstream press story). Yeah, I really hate how every thread turns into a 'the US is evil' thread.
US troops have looted quite a bit of antiquities. Several have been caught trying to smuggle valuables home. At least that's what the marine who admits he also looted antiquities told me as the reason he didn't send any home yet.
 
  • #15
member 5645
Originally posted by Adam
Well, I am very surprised that an Iranian would refer to Iran in such a way.

Iran and USA have almost identical life expectancy. Similar population growth rate. The USA has six times as many (by percentage) people infected with HIV. USA has higher literacy (dropping by the year). Iran has a higher GDP growth rate. USA has better rates for poverty and unemployment. Iran has an undustrial growth rate of 5.5%, while the USA has -0.4%.

Yep, you're right. Iran is getting better, while the USA is getting worse. I guess the fact that the state is improving does make it a developing nation. The same must then apply to Australia.
You are so ****ing smarter than me. haha.
 
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  • #16
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Originally posted by phatmonky
You are so ****ing smarter than me. haha.
Of course I am. What's your point? I still don't see why you said Iran is third world. It seems you think countries can be either superpowers OR third world, and nothing else.
 
  • #17
member 5645
Originally posted by Adam
Of course I am. What's your point? I still don't see why you said Iran is third world. It seems you think countries can be either superpowers OR third world, and nothing else.
I think the definition is pretty clear :) Now the debate is whether they are developing or not- I leading Iranian says yes, you say no, so what now?
 
  • #19
kat
26
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Originally posted by Adam
Well, I am very surprised that an Iranian would refer to Iran in such a way.
I'm not, it's an honest appraisal and from it's recent past a very positive thing hopefully it is the beginning of many more positive "developments" Some off the top of my head would be women's rights, religious freedoms, freedom of the press and the a biggie from the Universal Declaration of Human rights "The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures. In my mind that is what brings a country out of the "3rd world" status and into the 1st and it somehow seems to me devoloping to 1st world status and the right to self govern go somewhat hand in hand. The success of Israel a democracy in the midst of tyranny a good example.

Iran and USA have almost identical life expectancy.
I'm sorry, I didn't attend the public school system so we may not be seeing things from the same vantage point but please do tell me how Iran's total population life expectancy of 69 is almost identical to the US's 77?
Similar population growth rate.
I'm not really sure that's true as I believe the US's population growth can be mainly attributed to immigration but I could be mistaken.
The USA has six times as many (by percentage) people infected with HIV.
You know..it's just quite possible that this can be attributed to greater sexual freedom for both men and women as opposed to developing or undeveloping.
Iran has a higher GDP growth rate.
well yes it does. Of course, that may have something to do with Iran's GDP purchasing power parity being around $460 billion and the US's being over 10 trillion. Or per capita Iran's at 7 thousan and the US's at 36..obviously Iran has a bit more room for improvement.
USA has better rates for poverty and unemployment.
you seem to minimize the signifance of this....low poverty and high employment are also measures of devoloped or developing status. That the U.S. poverty rate hovers around 13% and Iran's is over 40...is significant.
Iran has an undustrial growth rate of 5.5%, while the USA has -0.4%.
same issue as that of the GDP although the issue of industrial growth and the loss of it are rather prickly points in the U.S. particulary for the "blue" collar workers..maybe less so for the "white" collar.

Yep, you're right. Iran is getting better, while the USA is getting worse. I guess the fact that the state is improving does make it a developing nation. The same must then apply to Australia.
I think you need to get out a bit more..maybe a little sunshine will help?
 
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  • #20
kat
26
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Originally posted by Adam
I

And "leading Iranian", because he works for the UN? My ex-girlfriend works for the UN too.
Small point. Mr. Mehdi Mollahosseini does not work for the UN. He works for Iran as a representative of his country to the global body of the U.N.. That does indeed make him a "Leading Iranian" I doubt that your x girlfriend was sent as the official Australian representative to speak on behalf of Australia and before the U.N...but if indeed she was then she is also..despite any personal relationship with yourself...a leading Australian.
 
  • #21
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kat

In my mind that is what brings a country out of the "3rd world" status and into the 1st and it somehow seems to me devoloping to 1st world status and the right to self govern go somewhat hand in hand.
How can you say Iran is a third world country? Did you not read the definitions I supplied?

The success of Israel a democracy in the midst of tyranny a good example.
Israel is hardly a good example of any sort of positive governmental method.
Definition of "ethnic cleansing": http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ethnic cleansing Note the definition is: "The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide." Now, Israel is doing at least two of those things.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7567019%255E1702,00.html [Broken]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,917834,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4629052-103681,00.html [Broken]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2828985.stm
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2828985.stm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/unitedstates/unpolicy/gen2003/0115us.htm [Broken]
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/veto/2002/1223israel.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B6E27ADF-9E5B-45CD-A4CD-403A3BCF3D39.htm [Broken]
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7543145%255E401,00.html [Broken]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/EE06A7BC-F8D2-4CE9-8A9F-DC2A62B2C133.htm [Broken]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D8B2E59A-F705-48A7-B6F7-588E9F37B5B9.htm [Broken]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/67979658-79FE-4CD1-83A4-7D378A081848.htm [Broken]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/67979658-79FE-4CD1-83A4-7D378A081848.htm [Broken]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7D5620B5-5846-4AD8-8441-BB1B14B6A48A.htm [Broken]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D3F4ACBB-A265-4268-AFEC-6996D0F835D0.htm [Broken]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1BF523F3-A395-451D-9910-36B7BF02B7DB.htm [Broken]
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7473991%255E401,00.html [Broken]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/AE871B47-A5D9-428E-B8E5-26E52D387622.htm [Broken]
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,137218-1-9,00.html
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990902/1999090222.html [Broken]
http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/6686f45896f15dbc852567ae00530132/7738125ef7c2ca9bc1256c4b00470a79?OpenDocument [Broken]
http://abc.net.au/news/2002/11/item20021127185951_1.htm [Broken]
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/07/23/mideast/
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/4227466.htm [Broken]
http://www.ummah.com/inewsletter/massacres/palestine/index14.htm [Broken]
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/breaking_news/4227466.htm
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/03/04/News/News.44530.html [Broken]
http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/95/148/05_3.html
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/020926/afp/020926130246top.html [Broken]
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=1&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1904&docdb=pr2000&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1 [Broken]
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=2&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1524&docdb=pr1996&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1 [Broken]
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=4&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1736&docdb=pr2000&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1 [Broken]
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=7&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=804&docdb=pr1996&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1 [Broken]
http://electronicintifada.net/forreference/keyfigures/sharon.html [Broken]

And finally, the diary of Rachel Corrie makes interesting reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,916246,00.html
I'm sorry, I didn't attend the public school system so we may not be seeing things from the same vantage point but please do tell me how Iran's total population life expectancy of 69 is almost identical to the US's 77?
Well duh, they are within only 8 per cent of each other. That's a pretty small difference. Maybe home-schooling uses a different numerical system, I don't know.

I'm not really sure that's true as I believe the US's population growth can be mainly attributed to immigration but I could be mistaken.
The cause is irrelevent. Population growth rates are almost identical.

You know..it's just quite possible that this can be attributed to greater sexual freedom for both men and women as opposed to developing or undeveloping.
That is another discussion, and I will start a thread on it in the Value Theory forum.

well yes it does. Of course, that may have something to do with Iran's GDP purchasing power parity being around $460 billion and the US's being over 10 trillion.
GDP growth rate is a good indication of economic health.

you seem to minimize the signifance of this....
I don't know how I minimised it. In fact I stated quite clearly that the USA is superior to Iran in this regard. The interesting thing about this is Iran's industry is growing, which means more employment, while the USA's is dropping, which means less employment. This is one reason why you can indeed say, as two of you did, that Iran is a developing nation (not a third world nation).

same issue as that of the GDP...
What it means is that civil rights improve, unions gain influence, labour costs increase, and the companies then move industry overseas, resulting in negative industrial growth and increasing unemployment. That's the USA. Iran is growing.

I think you need to get out a bit more..maybe a little sunshine will help?
[sarcasm]
I don't know how your little ad hominem applies in any way to this thread, but let me assure you that I honestly appreciate your concern.
[/sarcasm]
 
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  • #22
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kat

Originally posted by kat
Small point. Mr. Mehdi Mollahosseini does not work for the UN. He works for Iran as a representative of his country to the global body of the U.N.. That does indeed make him a "Leading Iranian" I doubt that your x girlfriend was sent as the official Australian representative to speak on behalf of Australia and before the U.N...but if indeed she was then she is also..despite any personal relationship with yourself...a leading Australian.
Heck, I worked for Australia. Two of my cousins do still. Are we "leading Australians"? Well, we actually are, but that's classified.
 
  • #23
russ_watters
Mentor
19,705
6,045


Originally posted by Adam
How can you say Iran is a third world country? Did you not read the definitions I supplied?
Did you read them?
The developing nations of Africa, Asia, and Latin American.
You said yourself that Iran is developing:
it does seem appropriate to refer to it as developing.
It just seems to me you don't like the connotation it has for you.
Well duh, they are within only 8 per cent of each other. That's a pretty small difference. Maybe home-schooling uses a different numerical system, I don't know.
Well, I did some of both public and private school and in neither was 77 8% higher than 69. :wink: Its 8 percentage POINTS, but 10 percent:
 
  • #24
member 5645


Originally posted by Adam

[sarcasm]
I don't know how your little ad hominem applies in any way to this thread, but let me assure you that I honestly appreciate your concern.
[/sarcasm]
ad hominem is a great thing to yell about when it doesn't pertain to you, isn't it?:)
Originally posted by Adam
I'm not going to re-post it all for this baboon...
 
  • #25
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russ_waters

Did you read them?
Good grief. The reading comprehension skills are declining.

First world nation: The USA and those allied with it through the Cold War.

Second world nation: The USSR and those industrialised nations allied with it through the Cold War.

Third world nation: Non-industrialised nations in Africa, Central America, South America, and Asia which were not strictly part of the NATO or Warsaw Pact alliances.

Now, these were strictly Cold War propaganda terms. They apply to Cold War entities. Now, at various times, Iran was occupied by, and allied with, either the USA side or the USSR side. That condition alone precludes the possibility of Iran being a third world nation.

You said yourself that Iran is developing: It just seems to me you don't like the connotation it has for you.
Iran is developing, yes. But it is not, and never has been, a third world nation.

Well, I did some of both public and private school and in neither was 77 8% higher than 69. :wink: Its 8 percentage POINTS, but 10 percent:
Fine, I should have said "less than 8 percentage points". Happy?
 

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