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Iraq war a self-fulfilling prophesy

  1. Oct 13, 2007 #1
    That is, you can't quit once you get started. Share the rhetoric that keeps us in the quagmire, e. g., "cut and run," "weapons of mass destruction," etc.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 13, 2007 #2
    Everything is relative. From the neo-consertive, rightwing, Christian coalition, Jews, etc... they do not and will not see IRAQ as a quagmire rather a vision of the future. Thus, the course in which we are heading in the IRAQ,IRAN, Palestine, (to the extent of all the Middle East) are part of fulling the age old prophecy from the "Book of Revelation." As horrible and horrendous events come to pass, correlation will tend to established itself (or with help of religious zealot) and soon the 'RAPTURE' becomes true.

    Let's playout a scenerio: A (unknown) conflict in Jeruselem that triggered the Jewish state to retaliate and destroy the "Dome of the Rock." The Muslim states retaliate by sacking the Jewish state. The U.S. becomes involve (because of Jewish coalitions or lobbyist) and use its military might against the Muslim countries. The Jewish launch the biggest offensive with U.S. backing and with use of nuclear weapons. Now the Pakistan involves and use it nuclear arsenal and will perpetuate until hundred of millions die. Of course, most likely the US and Isreal will prevail (for the fact they have the military might). This is the point where the Christian zealot called it "Rapture" because the "non believer and the unfaithful" have been cast to hell.

    So you see, in their eyes its not a "self fulling prophecy," but the fulling an age old prophecy. Therefore, from a religious perspective, they will continue to advocates the dominants of the Middle East. To the very extent, from the military and political agenda its a big advantageous. Establishing a major military base in the Middle East and Missle defense system to monitor and control the other side of the hemisphere far exceeds the FEW thousands of Americans soldiers, and MILLIONS of Muslims dead and misplaced. If you are venture capitalists (with lack of humanitarian conscience), which way would you go. Once military base is fully establish and secure, political and economic incentive will follow and as years (20 or more years) go by cultural incentive will follow suite.

    Therefore, the question should be "will America be able tolerate national (US soldiers killed and economic feasibility) and international condemnation to the suffering IRAQIs?" If America as whole becomes the society of indifference, yes we'll be there for next several decades or so.
    Politicising "cut and run", "weapons of mass destruction" and "terrorism" is only selling of FEAR by this administration. "... only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror ..." FDR.
    Finally, America if you buy into FEAR it will be your "self fulfilling prophecy" for you shall "reap what you sow."
     
  4. Oct 13, 2007 #3
    hserse,

    You are more perceptive than many Americans would realize. We all need to see others as we see ourselves. If an afterlife waits, the hypocrites will realize what they wrought unto the least of us. Choice is either interpreting religion literally and using it for plunder, or sharing its respect rather than reacting.

    Please remember, though, that a sweeping statement against Jews is more paranoid than objective. There is not an appropriate place for such condemnation. If you wish to avoid the conflict you mentioned, would not reconciliation, as opposed to repudiation, be the path to take?
     
  5. Oct 13, 2007 #4

    mjsd

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    indeed. :smile:
     
  6. Oct 14, 2007 #5

    but relative to what? We have already abolished absolutes...
     
  7. Oct 14, 2007 #6
    Indeed. Any ideology that aims to make one group inferior is based on paranoia and irrationality.
     
  8. Apr 27, 2008 #7

    absolutely !

    I may have missed that memo.
     
  9. Apr 27, 2008 #8
    The real problem in Iraq is that it is a very expensive war for us to prosecute and very cheap for our opponents. We can't keep at it for very much longer. McCain's supposed idea of a 100 year war is just dream stuff.

    If we keep up our deficit spending, our dollar will soon be in free fall and if we raise taxes the public will rebel. The only choice is to cut spending. If you wander over to the thread that concerns itself with where our taxes go, you will see that almost all goes to social security and Medicare (which will be cut over the dead bodies of many old people) and military. And as long as we are in Iraq, we can't cut military... catch 22.
     
  10. Apr 27, 2008 #9
    In my opinion there is, in a way, layers to the situation, and meanings and reasonings reserved for those at their perspective positions in the schemes of things. The way the military works, is on a need to know basis, and the layers of power operate the same way. If you read the book, "tsun tsu, the art of war", you may get a better understanding about how these things work. The problem with interpreting the situation from the perspective of an average person, is that the information, and reasoning prescribed to us are on a need to know basis. That is why we shuffle through the various ideas about religious prophecy, about human rights, about economic crisis, about terrorism and fear. Not that some of these reasons are not real, it is just that a major part of the plan is left out to us. Henry Kissenger, at the NATO awards ceremony, announced Rudolf Merdoc before he came up to give his speech, and receive an award. The basic theme of his announcement, was about his courage to make decisions which were 50.1 percent good, and 49.9 percent bad. They are not stupid, and those at the top of the chain of command, they are making very carefully calculated decisions. We can only hope that they consider the little guys in their calculations as important, for our sake.

    It is important to remember, that time never stops(except in black holes and pre big bangs), the beast never sleeps, and the decisions that the world powers make will forever change the coarse of history. I believe that the iraq war does have a lot to do with oil, but even more than that, I believe that the war is about a balance of power associated with the oil. Not only that, but also about control over the middle east, and that also means protecting power that can be gained by others such as russia, china, etc. If we don't get the oil, and the control, someone else will, and they may be an enemy.
     
  11. Apr 27, 2008 #10
    It is a very mysterious time we are living in. It is a time when information is available. It is also a time where information is a tool used to motivate, mislead, recruit, indoctrinate, justify, etc. Sometimes the more you take in the less you know. This is a time when you must listen to everything and believe nothing.
     
  12. Apr 28, 2008 #11
    Or like Conan the Barbarian discount it by 9/10s :approve:. Loren it does become self fullfilling when the public is still swayed this way and that by corporate controlled media. Rev. J. Wright on Bill Moyer's Friday night almost deveoloped a scenario like that described by hserse in the 2nd post. It can happen with media manipulation of peoples' emotions and the fanatical radical zealotism(our way is the only way-no compromise) so called church leaders expound. Although the words J. Wright used were emotive he also called on everyone listening to THINK and use their God given ability to reason through the confetti of inflamatory rhetoric and see where the truth leads.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  13. Apr 28, 2008 #12
    W3pcq: "It is a very mysterious time we are living in. It is a time when information is available. It is also a time where information is a tool used to motivate, mislead, recruit, indoctrinate, justify, etc. Sometimes the more you take in the less you know. This is a time when you must listen to everything and believe nothing."

    I completely agree. How information is broadcast is completely at the mercy of who is putting it out there and what impact they want it to have on their target audience. Its textbook psychological play.

    For example, my husband, currently deployed right now, called me while I was at work to say hello. I told him my boss was on his doomsday kick again and my husband said "Well you can really send him over the edge by telling him Sam's Club is rationing its rice." Not five minutes after we ended our conversation a news story came on about just that. They constantly mentioned how there was a shortage IN FOREIGN countries but 90 % of our rice is grown here so we in the U.S. should not see very much affect; we'll see a change in specialty rices. However, if I hadn't watched all 10 minutes of the report I would ahve missed the shortage applies more to other countries than here. But again harping on the shortage without putting all facts up front or very quietly mentioning them at the very end after most people stop watching does nothing to quell panic people naturally foster. Propaganda.

    Here's the link to the video for the story I mentioned above. Its the first link:

    http://search2.foxnews.com/search?a...o&proxystylesheet=my_frontend&q=Rice Shortage
     
  14. Apr 29, 2008 #13
    The war may be bringing other prophesies to pass, food shortages and droughts; the ecological damage from the Iraq war probably can't be measured. The release of hydro carbons into the air from burned or burning oil fields, seepage and leaks into the seas around the ports and terminals. Fine balances that mean survival or extinction for sensitive species of flora and/or fauna may be impacted and the worlds leaders, even scientist ad researchers could be blissfully unaware.

    In the face of the 'rice shortage' have you heard that bee populations are in a steep decline. This bodes ill for the world in general. I think just about all of you know the importance of bees in the pollenization of food plants, and ... flowering plants period.

    It has been talked about a little and I've seen a couple of programs on it but its not on peoples mind like say Miley Cyrus's misjudgment or the Popes visit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2008
  15. Apr 29, 2008 #14
    Amp, I think I heard it in passing but nothing in detail. I agree with your assessment of the after affects of the war. However, I think it extends beyond the ecological affects. There are many others that will not be measurable for some time. Such as the psychological affects of the deployment changes on the soldiers and their families. As it is I know my husband and I are dealing with it now.
     
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