News Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

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S.G. Janssens

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So what you're saying is, anyone can just go pick up a gun, fly themselves to Syria, and decide that they don't need to obey any sort of chain of command or due process at all?

That mentality is not how you fight terrorists, that's how people become terrorists. It doesn't matter if the vigilantes are right, if everyone decided to take things into their own hands society wouldn't be able to function.
There is no society in IS country. There is just death, destruction and misery.

The West is relying on groups like YPG (and their chain of command!) to do the dirty work on the ground for them. If they are so concerned about these groups' supposed lack of ethics, why don't they send their own terrestrial forces?
The Amnesty quote is actually from your article.
Yes, it is. I did not suggest that it was not.
The group itself is being investigated for killing civilians in Syria. He was a member of the group, in Syria, when that happened. Ergo it's not unreasonable to wonder if he may have been involved or, if not, whether he knows anything about the people involved.
I don't think that is what the Dutch justice department is primarily after. In any case, at least part of the investigation is based on the suspicion that Jitse killed IS fighters, see the quote from the article that I gave in post #943
'Dutch law does not allow citizens to use violence – apart from in extreme circumstances – and certainly not to use deadly force. Killing IS fighters can, therefore, result in a criminal prosecution for murder,’ the prosecution department statement said.
as well as

'Jitse A was picked up in Arnhem and is being investigated for his role in killing Islamic State jihadis while fighting with YPG forces', the public prosecution department said in a statement.
 

Astronuc

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Syrians mass on Turkish border as regime advances
http://news.yahoo.com/syria-regime-forces-fresh-gains-south-monitor-103050248.html
Up to 20,000 stranded at Syria border with Turkey: UN
http://news.yahoo.com/20-000-stranded-syria-border-turkey-un-160906682.html

Tens of thousands of civilians have joined an exodus to escape fierce fighting involving government forces who severed the rebels' main supply route into Syria's second city.
Civilians are caught between homicidal Daesh and apparently equally homicidal Syrian government, which has support from Russia.
 
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There is no society in IS country. There is just death, destruction and misery.
Right, and that's exactly the problem. If we stoop to their level and decide that vigilante justice and moral outrage trump due process of the law, then that's where our society is also headed.

It doesn't matter that IS are overwhelmingly in the wrong. If we start to do things their way, then we're going to end up like them.

It's also extremely unethical to be sending civilians who may not have any formal military training and whose preparation no one can be certain of into combat. That could interfere with actual military interventions, or we could just be sending well-meaning civilians to their deaths.

The West is relying on groups like YPG (and their chain of command!) to do the dirty work on the ground for them.
I don't know that throwing more insurgents into the mix is going to be especially helpful. And given that there has been very little attention to groups like YPG recently, I doubt that they're actually doing a whole lot.

If they are so concerned about these groups' supposed lack of ethics, why don't they send their own terrestrial forces?
Are we not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_Syria
 

S.G. Janssens

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Right, and that's exactly the problem. If we stoop to their level and decide that vigilante justice and moral outrage trump due process of the law, then that's where our society is also headed.
There is no law in IS territory, except for the sharia.
It doesn't matter that IS are overwhelmingly in the wrong. If we start to do things their way, then we're going to end up like them.
I believe there is a big and very essential difference between contributing to halting IS and starting to do things their way.
It's also extremely unethical to be sending civilians who may not have any formal military training and whose preparation no one can be certain of into combat. That could interfere with actual military interventions, or we could just be sending well-meaning civilians to their deaths.
Jitse Akse is a former Dutch commando, well-trained and with experience that goes back to the Yugoslavian civil war. This is also written in the source article.
As far as I understand, the presence of Western forces is restricted to the airspace, with only a limited number of special forces, "advisors" and intelligence officers on the ground. Most of the actual combat on the ground against IS is done by groups like YPG, among others, often in cooperation with the West.
 
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There is no law in IS territory, except for the sharia.
And that's the kind of society you end up with when people start to decide to take the jobs of law enforcement and national security into their own hands.

I believe there is a big and very essential difference between contributing to halting IS and starting to do things their way.
As it stands, what this group has been accused of involvement in is not the sort of thing I would call "contributing". The purpose of this investigation is to clarify whether or not civilians have the right to volunteer to fight for non-government military groups. If they rule in his favor and authorize civilians to join YPG to volunteer to help stabilize Syria (and I'm not necessarily saying that they shouldn't) then no harm done, because that way it's all above-board.

The accusation of involvement with violence against civilians also really should be investigated. Would you prefer that it just go ignored?

Jitse Akse is a former Dutch commando, well-trained and with experience that goes back to the Yugoslavian civil war. This is also written in the source article.
And do you think that's true of the average self-appointed militia fighter? YPG has also been known to recruit children. There's no oversight of their training practices, so we can't know for sure that it's a good idea to be letting them send civilians into combat.

As far as I understand, the presence of Western forces is restricted to the airspace, with only a limited number of special forces, "advisors" and intelligence officers on the ground. Most of the actual combat on the ground against IS is done by groups like YPG, among others, often in cooperation with the West.
In cooperation with, and with the authorization of, those countries.
 

russ_watters

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Hard to believe no one posted about the "cease fire" "cessation of hostilities":
World powers have agreed to seek a nationwide "cessation of hostilities" in Syria to begin in a week's time, after talks in Munich, Germany.

The halt will not apply to the battle against jihadist groups Islamic State (IS) and al-Nusra Front.

The 17-member International Syria Support Group (ISSG) also agreed to accelerate and expand aid deliveries.

The announcement comes as the Syrian army, backed by Russian air strikes, advances in Aleppo province.

The move threatens to encircle tens of thousands of civilians in rebel-held parts of the major city of Aleppo.

The Syrian government has not yet responded, though a key rebel coalition welcomed the announcement.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35556783
So.....near as I can tell, it doesn't involve any of the primary combatants and Russia is accelerating airstrikes since. So.. is this just a deal where everyone agrees to get out of Russia's way while Putin helps Assad defeat the rebels but everyone pretends it is a mutual "cease-fire" so they can quit the fight and save face instead of looking like they are just quitting?

If we never intended to do more than put in a token effort to fight, regardless of if it actually helped or not, just to make it look like we were trying, does it still count as a loss?
 
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Syrian government and "main opposition" agree to the terms of the cessation of hostilities.

ISIS, Al Nusra, and basically any Islamist group who's too close to Al Nusra are not included.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35639970

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35643151

The Syrian government and the main opposition umbrella group say they accept the terms of a deal to cease hostilities from Saturday.

The government said it would halt "combat operations" in line with the plan announced by the US and Russia.

But the opposition said its acceptance depended on government forces ending sieges and air strikes of civilians.

The deal will not apply to the two main jihadist groups in Syria, Islamic State (IS) and the rival al-Nusra Front.
Do all parties agree with the exclusion list?

No. Russia, Iran and the Syrian government regard Ahrar al-Sham and Jaish al-Islam as terrorist groups.

Ahrar al-Sham is likely to be excluded from the ceasefire, given its alliance with al-Nusra in Aleppo and Idlib.

But Jaish al-Islam, which controls large areas of the Damascus countryside, has closer ties to the broader Syrian opposition, and any attack on its positions might therefore endanger the ceasefire.

Things seem too fragile for anyone to be optimistic.
 

Astronuc

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Watch: a 15-year-old Swedish girl explains why she joined ISIS — and why she regrets it
http://www.vox.com/2016/2/24/11107854/isis-swedish-teen

Kids!


And of course, we can include Libya in the metastasis of Daesh
http://news.yahoo.com/where-isis-doubling-201632483.html
The Libyan branch of ISIS staged a gruesome attack Wednesday on government-security headquarters in the western city of Sabratha. According to the AP, the group beheaded 12 officers before taking control of the complex.
 
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Astronuc

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Astronuc

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American Troops Capture ISIS Leader In Iraq
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/02/468937637/american-troops-capture-isis-leader-in-iraq

U.S. Special Ops Troops Aim To Round Up ISIS Leaders In Iraq
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/03/02/468956113/u-s-special-ops-troops-aim-to-round-up-isis-leaders-in-iraq

U.S. Captures ISIS Operative, Ushering in Tricky Phase
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/middleeast/us-captures-isis-operative-ushering-in-tricky-phase.html

The US is apparently being more effective in targeting Daesh and its leaders.
 

Astronuc

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Istanbul bomber identified as militant with Daesh links
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-confirms-third-citizen-killed-istanbul-attack-100334468.html [Broken]
ISTANBUL (AP) — Turkey's interior minister on Sunday identified the suicide bomber who killed four foreign tourists in Istanbul as a militant with links to the Islamic State group.

Minister Efkan Ala said the bomber was Turkish citizen Mehmet Ozturk, who was born in 1992 in Gaziantep province, which borders Syria. He said Ozturk wasn't on any list of wanted suspects and five other people were detained as part of the investigation.
Apparently not Kurdish.
 
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Astronuc

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naima

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you got the power when you can decide and ignore the citizens. In France our president was elected after he promised to apply several things. He decided after to apply the opposite. He only said I am elected four 5 years and i will go on. Only 15% would vote for him now. The problem in our democracies is that the candidates are allowed to lie before. I am not sure to vote anymore.
 
The problem in our democracies is that the candidates are allowed to lie before. I am not sure to vote anymore.
Without a democracy, you would be even less able to effect any change. Kings did not need to care what people want.

BTW, voting is the least effective of the methods available in democracy to effect some changes (one vote is not really important). People who really want something to change start publishing articles about politics, organize demonstrations, join a party, or create a new one.
 

naima

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But in the reality those who will decide for you will always belong to the same priviligied clan.
 
But in the reality those who will decide for you will always belong to the same priviligied clan.
Obama is a counterexample.
I think you are just looking for a way to justify your "I'm unhappy about current situation but won't actually do anything to change it" attitude.
 

mheslep

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Obama is a counterexample...
No family in politics, but many US Presidents meet that standard, including all three GOP candidates. Otherwise, Obama's background includes elite private prep school, Ivy League college and law school, Chicago machine politician and organizer.
 

Astronuc

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French journalist infiltrates jihadist cell for six months
https://www.yahoo.com/news/french-journalist-infiltrates-jihadist-cell-six-months-031631439.html
"One of the main lessons was that I never saw any Islam in this affair. No will to improve the world. Only lost, frustrated, suicidal, easily manipulated youths.

"They had the misfortune of being born in the era that the Islamic State exists. It is very sad. They are youngsters who are looking for something and that is what they found."
Interesting how the recruiters who encourage suicide bombing don't practice what they preach.
 

Fervent Freyja

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Interesting how the recruiters who encourage suicide bombing don't practice what they preach.
There probably aren't any religious elements around because most of them are too functionally illiterate and can't understand their book enough to even preach, even if they wanted to do so. The leaders seem to be educated though and probably count on those young men having low intelligence and little confidence about themselves to begin with.
 

mheslep

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...

Interesting how the recruiters who encourage suicide bombing don't practice what they preach.
Like the leadership of many cults.
 

Astronuc

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The war against the Islamic State hits hurdles just as the U.S. military gears up
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-war-against-the-islamic-state-hits-hurdles-just-as-the-us-military-gears-up/2016/05/08/013897f8-10ac-11e6-a9b5-bf703a5a7191_story.html



Muslim leaders deny ISIS’ religious claims, stoking group’s anger
http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/muslim-leaders-deny-isis-religious-claims-stoking-groups-anger/

Death threats are a sign that Muslim religious leaders have antagonized the Islamic State, and their growing influence also contradicts those who claim that Muslim leaders have been silent in the fight against violent extremism.
 

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