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News Iraqis tell the reality of Iraq .

  1. Mar 18, 2004 #1
    Iraqis tell the reality of Iraq.....


    Amazing that all of the Iraqis posting say it's better. The poll shows that most think it is bettter now than before. And yet MOST that are posting from outside of Iraq say they don't believe it.
    Pure, uneducated, blind, anti-american hatred I say.
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 18, 2004 #2


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    Equally amazing how Saddam had a 100% approval rating prior to the war. Also ask yourself who in Iraq actually has internet access, or knows english well enough to post... Note additionally that the positive poll result - 57% - is somewhat less than the poll result from a survey carried out earlier.
  4. Mar 18, 2004 #3
    Unless you are proposing that they are being forced to vote a certain way, you'll have to make a better analogy than that :smile:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3514504.stm The article with more information about the poll.

    And Iraqis have hope! Unlike the chicken little naysayers of the US, looking for doom..


    Iraq will be a great country soon. It took 3 years to assist S Korea in developing a democratic process. They had most of the same problems as Iraq. Uprisings, infrastructure, etc. all were a problem. It was overcome, and this will Iraq will be the same
  5. Mar 18, 2004 #4


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    Iraq will have a much tougher time than Korea developing democracy. There are two monumental problems in Iraq that Korea just didn't have.

    1. Iraq has just about the worst population distribution a nation could have - a single distinct group with a majority that is not overwhelming. If either 30% or 90% of the nation were Shiites, things would be easier. At 65% of the population, the Shiites want power, and will have it in a democracy, but the other groups will be strong enough to resist the rule of law if the Shiites exercise power selfishly.

    2. The oil industry in Iraq is too big of a prize to resist corruption. In a diversified economy, the rewards of corruption are small, so the corruption comes in small packages. Corruption may affect government, but it won't control it. The corruption that will inevitably grow in Iraq's oil industry will be powerful enough to control the government.

    And, BTW, the US did not assist Korea in developing democracy. For years we supported their dictators. The rhetoric from the White house to the very end was that democracy protestors were dupes of communists.

  6. Mar 18, 2004 #5
    Is there really only one reality, based on interviewing a dozen or so people? Or are there individual stories, some good, some horrible? The reality is that many Iraqis are much worse off now than they were. Some may be better off, but look at the numbers....57% think things are better, that's absolutely not an overwhelming endorsement, is it? And, that doesn't mean that they are happy about American troops being there, since not quite half agreed with the invasion.

    Selectively looking at data and starting misleading threads...sweet.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2004
  7. Mar 18, 2004 #6


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    I can't fathom responses like this. I really can't. It's like saying...oh yeah, but those slaves got up and went to work everyday ...they must have like working for their master. But..that't my opinion..there's enough Iraqi's blogging and enough Iraqi forums that you could go ask them for yourself if you wanted the truth.

    I don't know FZ, you know those backward arabs...how could they possibly get online in a year? how could they possibly have ever been schooled in english? ooohh jeez what are those internet cafes popping up everywhere? oh jeezz... what are those satelite dishes on every street corner? Oh jeez...who are all of these people blogging from Iraq~!

    Healing Iraq Iraq The Model
    Iraq At a Glance
    Iraq and Iraqi's Road Of a Nation
    Where is Raed
    The Mesopotamian
    Sun of Iraq

    There's just a short list for starters. Maybe you should let Iraqi's speak for themselves.
  8. Mar 18, 2004 #7


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    Dearly Missed

  9. Mar 18, 2004 #8


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    Well said.

    But the main objective has been attained (almost): Cheney (Halliburton) and other Bush buddies have secured a nice, low-risk, high-profit revenue stream, for several decades at least.

    Who's next? Hmm, let's see, which dictatorial regime is sitting on lots of oil (and not giving Dick his due share)?
  10. Mar 18, 2004 #9


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    i actually work with escapees from iraq the overall view i
    get is that they couldn't give a dam for politics they just
    want to go home and enjoy the quite life they once had
  11. Mar 18, 2004 #10
    a dozen? The stories I posted were simply people commenting on the BBC's polling.

    poll of 2500 across the country.
    57 think it's better
    21% think it's worse
    The remainder unchanged.

    How amazing that these numbers almost correspond exactly with the populations of sunni and shiites.
    The sunnis no longer have their special status with Saddam handing them all the top paying jobs, and freebees.
    The shiite now get to be free without being gunned down for looking at someoen wrong.

    I posted the link. They are divided about 50:50 (when you count he margine of error) on whether the invasion was the right way to do things.
    But they are almost all in unison when they say they want their own democracy.

    EDIT- I said BBC's poll. THe poll was done by Oxford REsearch International
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2004
  12. Mar 18, 2004 #11
    I love the guy who posted asking "do you think we are children?" when all the people were telling what the Iraqis think
  13. Mar 18, 2004 #12
    I was commenting on the comments, not the overall poll. Nevertheless, being 57/43 or even 60/40 isn't what I would consider to be staggering support for anything.
  14. Mar 18, 2004 #13


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    escapees from when, where in Iraq and escaping from what? I would imagine their outlook would be different if they were escaped Ba'athist, sadaam's relatives or appointees..kurds..shiite's..sunni's..christians, moslems, jews...can you be more specific?
  15. Mar 18, 2004 #14


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    From The Mesopatomian
  16. Mar 19, 2004 #15


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    escapees from when, where in Iraq and escaping from what? I would imagine their outlook would be different if they were escaped Ba'athist, sadaam's relatives or appointees..kurds..shiite's
    maybe the world doesn't understand, but few in iraq wanted a war
    or Saddam, the ones i know left because they refused to fight.
    but they had it easy in iraq many did not have to work and were
    provided for,so maybe we cant separate the waring tribal maniacs
    from the peace loving, but we shouldn't tar them all with the
    same brush.
  17. Mar 19, 2004 #16


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    Well...jeez, I think that's what my question asked you not to do. So, I think in order to not paint those "escapees" (a dubious term at best) that you know..or those who are still in Iraq with the same brush...you should be more specific. Otherwise don't make such broad sweeping claims.
  18. Mar 19, 2004 #17


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    You are missing the point.

    Evidence A:

    The poll tells us that only 57% think things have improved, and 21% think things have gotten worse.

    Evidence B:

    The posting show 100% saying things have improved.

    The question we then ask is - where is that other 43%? It is an obvious question, leading to a clear answer - that the postings of the vocal few do not neccessarily represent the whole picture, and that a significant number are not allowed, or otherwise unable to speak for themselves. Simple mathematics. The fact that this is an english site shows a possible reason - the posters are those with greatest contact with the west, and who were most in opposition to Saddam during his rule.

    Yes. But this was not repeated in other polls, and the causal link is not defined. And if that were true, it would be intensely worrying for Iraq's future.
  19. Mar 19, 2004 #18

    Ivan Seeking

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    The question of the state of affairs in Iraq right now is not the issue. The real question is: What will happen if and when we pull out?

    In the end, only the names will have changed.
  20. Mar 19, 2004 #19
    are you serious?
  21. Mar 19, 2004 #20

    Ivan Seeking

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    We are not going to "fix" the middle east...especially not by force. The problems there are thousands of years old. To miss this point is to miss the entire point of what drives the conflicts.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2004
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