Is God A Safe Subject?

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  • #51
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There's no reason to believe in ET life any more or less than God. Yet here you are happy to use it as part of your own argument.

I don't believe in ETs, we haven't seen any proof as far as I know, but we know there is life on earth. We know what it looks like. We can measure it. Extrapolating a possibility that it may exist elsewhere is not irrational. Planets and suns exist elsewhere.

Show me a godthing that exists here on earth. I am quite happy to admit what I don't know, but that doesn't make supernatural nonsense any more likely.
 
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  • #52
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I can tell you the subjective emotion of fear exists but I can't take you and show you.

Again back to apples and oranges, you are comparing things with obviously different qualities as if they are alike. A god, a fruit fly and an emotion are qualitatively different.

But even an emotional response can be measured in the lab. Fear is a biochemical reaction as much as it is anything else. And subjective or not, when someone describes fear, I can relate that description, to something I have experienced and then compare it to what we know about biology. I have multiple sources, a very concrete thing, even if 'fear' is somewhat hard to describe.

God however is not a feeling, god is a 'conclusion' about a feeling. What you should be comparing... and I wouldn't disagree here, is the emotion of fear is similar to (and to some poor souls, indistinguishable from) the feeling of 'awe' or 'joy' people associate with 'the presence of divinity'.

That feeling is very real, the 'conclusion' its caused by a vengeful sky elf, is not.
 
  • #53
DaveC426913
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I don't believe in ETs, we haven't seen any proof as far as I know, but we know there is life on earth. We know what it looks like. We can measure it. Extrapolating a possibility that it may exist elsewhere is not irrational. Planets and suns exist elsewhere.

Show me a godthing that exists here on earth. I am quite happy to admit what I don't know, but that doesn't make supernatural nonsense any more likely.

You used the possibility of life elsewhere to refute my claim that we are unique. It doesn't matter whether there are things elsewhere, or whether you believe them, it is enough that they might exist. That is enough for you.

And it is enough for other people too.

No one said you have to believe there is a God, only that you acknowledge that 'it doesn't exist' is not the only answer.
 
  • #54
DaveC426913
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Again back to apples and oranges, you are comparing things with obviously different qualities as if they are alike. A god, a fruit fly and an emotion are qualitatively different.
What I am doing is showing you that the tests you use to determine if something is real or not are unreliable. So far, you have no test that shows God is an apple while everything else is an orange.
 
  • #55
Ivan Seeking
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Is it really just a matter of extremism or being outwardly dangerous? People who believe in elves or fairies, who actually believe in them, may not have a dangerous(at least relative to me) belief, but it could be just as strong, they might spend all their resources and, essentially ruin/waste their lives due to this belief, all very quietly and calmly.

How exactly does a belief translate into a wasted life; fairy conventions? We all have beliefs that can't be justified.

When I think of all the scientists in history, those men of faith(what a bitter word), who, if they could have lived without religious faith.... without that straitjacket of irrational belief... what they would have accomplished. Sorry, I realize your faith probably 'gives you something' you consider positive, but by any god you care to name, all I see is a horrible waste of potential.

I have to wonder how much time you've wasted denying the existence of God when your position can never be proven.

How does my belief result in a wasted life again? I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's.
 
  • #56
Ivan Seeking
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Research Shows Religion Plays A Major Role In Health, Longevity

Being good has its rewards in this life, as well as in the next.

Research conducted partly at the University of Colorado at Boulder has found that regular churchgoers live longer than people who seldom or never attend worship services.

For the first time, that extra lifespan has been quantified. While there are differences between genders and races, in general those who go to church once or more each week can look forward to about seven more years than those who never attend.

Life expectancy beyond age 20 averages another 55.3 years, to age 75, for those who never attend church compared to another 62.9 years, age 83, for those who go more than once a week.[continued]
http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/1999/209.html [Broken]

Also, it may be okay to pick on fairies, but you had better leave the elves alone
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=50063&highlight=hobbits

Oh yes, and most scientists probably agree that there are ETs out there, somewhere.
 
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  • #58
This is what is so wrong with religion, "don't worry about this life, there's a better one waiting for you after you die". This causes so many people to fail to make the best of the only life they'll have, some false promise of a wonderful afterlife. Even if you want to cling to the belief that there is an afterlife, live this one like it's all you will ever have.

Also, I realize that English isn't your first language, but please make an effort to use real English words. "dat dem dey den dere dis dats" are not acceptable, replacing "th" with a "d" is not acceptable. From now on I expect you to use the proper words.


yeah english isnt my first language. :P See i have been hearing this and that about religion why dont we study and analyze it.. i talked to many professors of comparitive religion, and i myself am studying christianity and islam.

<edit: removed religious references - MIH>

And yea i agree when you say that "live this life as its all we have" but this life is a foundation for the next one.. its kind of an investment.. see what we people are talking and discussing is something we have heard about religion or things that our elders told us.. it would be better if we ourselves study religion and then discuss..
 
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  • #59
baywax
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god and a banana are not the same.

Many people.... like about 2 billion or more, would disagree. Do the sheer numbers of people who believe a banana is god (or a part thereof) make them right? You and I can disagree with 2 or 4 billion people all we want but, in the end, does majority rule on this one?
 
  • #60
baywax
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I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's.

I don't believe you Ivan. You are a star candidate for heroism and altruistic behaviour. Faith can move mountains and I believe it would move you to risk or even "trade" your life for another human being's.
 
  • #61
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No one said you have to believe there is a God, only that you acknowledge that 'it doesn't exist' is not the only answer.

Until you have some kind of evidence, the god conclusion is fantasy. And that is what it is, a conclusion, not a hypothesis.

We can directly observe emotional states in ourselves and others, and both read about and see for ourselves fruit flies, those are not fantasy.
 
  • #62
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What I am doing is showing you that the tests you use to determine if something is real or not are unreliable. So far, you have no test that shows God is an apple while everything else is an orange.

You haven't done anything of the kind, you have pointedly ignored what I said. I think we're done.
 
  • #63
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How exactly does a belief translate into a wasted life; fairy conventions? We all have beliefs that can't be justified.
When people have faith in something they look for ways either not to violate it, or to support it and many have abandoned scientific inquiry in directions that conflict with their faith or the faith of the majority. Even moderate believers oppose scientific advancement on so-called ethical grounds because of non-issues like the 'soul'. Consider stem cell research. Consider Galileo as the prime example, but also all the others of his time and later who believed and so [were ]stopped before stepping on the toes of the divine.
I have to wonder how much time you've wasted denying the existence of God when your position can never be proven.
I don't deny the existense of gods, any more than I deny the existence of celestial teapots and Invisible Pink Unicorns. I deny there is proof for them and I affirm that belief in such things without proof is harmful to human beings both in specific and general. I deny belief in Odin, Zeus...etc... its rational... and the list is long and includes the Yahweh god.
How does my belief result in a wasted life again? I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's.

The more irrational beliefs you give up, the more your mind opens to real possibilities. I'm embracing what is, not my fantasies about what I think should be. I think the more people who do this the more all benefit. The universe is a wondrous place, putting constraints on it, only limits what we can ultimately become.
 
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  • #64
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Whoops, and I had to add this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/14/AR2005111401051.html

So it would seem that faith makes more sense than exercise. :biggrin:

We are social animals, I would question whether this is a matter of faith, as opposed to simple positive community reinforcement. Religions fill needs of their communities, feeling part of community is part of psychological and even physical wellbeing. You'll note there are also studies that show people tend to die soon after their life partner dies. Relationships, can be a lifeline to those at retirement age and for us younger types as well. I don't see this as something a non-religious community couldn't do, but no, I don't dispute these facts.
 
  • #65
DaveC426913
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You haven't done anything of the kind, you have pointedly ignored what I said. I think we're done.
Actually, we were done when you contradicted your own own claim by calling upon an example of something of which there is no reason to suppose exists. You just haven't accepted it.
 
  • #66
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Actually, we were done when you contradicted your own own claim by calling upon an example of something of which there is no reason to suppose exists. You just haven't accepted it.

Again, you didn't read what I said, you jumped to a conclusion about what I said, but thanks for your input, such that it was.
 
  • #67
Math Is Hard
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I think the OP's question has been sufficiently answered.
 

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