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Is homosexuality a sin?

  1. Apr 6, 2003 #1
    I was just wondering if any of you out there believe that homosexuaity is a sin. I personally believe it to be a genetic "malfunction," but I know there are people who believe it to be a choice, and a heretical one at that. The reason I ask is that I would like to challenge those who view it as such.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 6, 2003 #2
    No, I think 'sin' is not appropriate for describing homosexuality. It has the implication of God being involved, or more specifically that someone knows the will of God, which is a doubtful thing.
     
  4. Apr 6, 2003 #3
    Well I forget which version of the Bible says it, but it does state something to the effect of, "Thou shalt not share thy bed with one of the same gender."
     
  5. Apr 6, 2003 #4
    Like I was saying, some people actually have the audacity to insist they know the will of God...
     
  6. Apr 6, 2003 #5
    Right I agree. It's just that I was wondering if anyone here felt that way. But I kinda doubt it since everyone here seems to be very open-minded.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2003
  7. Apr 6, 2003 #6
    I was raised in a Christian context...

    And assuming that
    1) God exists
    2) That particular God revealed itself via people who wrote the Bible
    3) "Sin" is being defined as "community breaking" or "maliciousness behavior with the intentions of inflicting harm or invading the freedom of others" (my definition that I came up with at the spur of the moment... a definition that is still evolving. Please challenge it if applicable)
    4) God is indeed a God of "justice", "love" and "liberation" as described...
    5) The bible was written by humans inspired by God, but also inspired by their particular cultural and historical context (which consists of racism, and patriarchy...)

    I cannot see a God of justice, love or liberation condemn the mutually respectul and consentual union between two people who love each other regardless of gender or sex. - Whether it be a M to F transexual, an intersexed individual, two females etc. etc. the whole lot.

    Therefore, I do not think homosexuality is a sin.
     
  8. Apr 6, 2003 #7
    i am with BoulderHead on this. granted i think god would rather we did not lie, steal, kill and such from what i have seen; but as for homosexual activity, i dont see why it would be a no-no. personally i think homosexuality should be encouraged as it just makes my odds better with the ladies.
     
  9. Apr 6, 2003 #8

    russ_watters

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    Staff: Mentor

    This depends a lot on your specific religious beliefs and beyond that, there are other questions here: Is a sin an action or can it just be a feeling or a desire? Since you cannot be reasonably expected to control your feelings, I have a hard time accepting that just being homosexual is a sin.

    Now what of the act itself? I guess it depends on what you think the "cause" of homosexuality is. If you believe it is simply a choice (the thought and/or the act), the it COULD be a sin. If you are born with it, I personally don't believe God would hold it against you. You can't control it.

    So what does cause it? Choice? Upbringing? Genetic flaw? Genetic heredity?

    I have a hard time believing people would choose to be gay, so I reject that. I have a hard time believing that it could be hereditary since you would expect it to be filtered out by evolution. So that leaves genetic flaw and upbringing. Since it would appear that people from "normal" upbringings can become gay, that seems to not be it. So that leaves us with genetic flaw. Thats what I believe.
     
  10. Apr 6, 2003 #9
    My thoughts exactly, that is, if I believed God existed of course. And #5 was the very point I would have argued. And I feel your definition of sin is well stated and consise, although the accused may not always be conscious of the moral reprocussions upon action, but that's another topic in itself. :smile: But I know whatcha meant.
    Thank you Entropia.
     
  11. Apr 6, 2003 #10
    Russ, how is one who emotionally&physically relates on an intimate level with someone of the same sex (or transexed or an intersexed individual) a "genetic flaw"?
     
  12. Apr 6, 2003 #11
    By that he means that the man/woman was supposed to be a woman/man but something got "screwed up" in the process and he/she ended up homosexual. The emotional and physical part isn't the flaw. The individual is just doing or feeling what comes natural. If that makes any sense.
     
  13. Apr 6, 2003 #12
    No, homosexuality is not a sin.
     
  14. Apr 7, 2003 #13
    that sounds like a logical phallacy. "it is that way therefore it ought to be that way."
     
  15. Apr 7, 2003 #14
    My name isn't russ, but I believe he meant that since it's ruled out as 'heredity' alone (because it is not passed on through generations) then it must be the cause of some sort of mutation. Flaw may not have been the best word, but that's how I interpreted it. Most things that are not evolutionarily productive can be (and often are) perceived to be mutations/flaws.
     
  16. Apr 7, 2003 #15
    No biological link for homosexuality has been found... I know indentical twins, one is gay, the other is straight.
     
  17. Apr 7, 2003 #16
    The following scriptures appear to be relevant to the question. I offer them without comment.

    Leviticus 18:22
    "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."

    Leviticus 20:13
    "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an obimination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

    Romans 1:27
    "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
     
  18. Apr 7, 2003 #17
    If you read last weeks new scientist, they did find a correlation between having an older brother and being more likely to be gay.
     
  19. Apr 7, 2003 #18
    Ignorance.

    Superstition.

    Fear

    I'd say I Corinthians 6:9-10 means the kingdom of god is going to be rather empty.

    I'd like to offer something without comment too;
    An it harm no one, do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2003
  20. Apr 7, 2003 #19
    Well that doesn't really prove anything, I mean the two fetuses are separate organisms. You ever heard of twins being born and one ended up still-born? I have.
     
  21. Apr 11, 2003 #20
    I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, per se. God intended for us to like the opposite sex, which means he doesn't like it when we like the same sex, but that doens't necessarily mean its sinning against him.

    I also believe you are born homosexual, as most people you would talk to would say the opposite sex just doesn't do anything for them. You could apply this concept to other birth defects, such as turret syndrome, the person cannot help yelling things out, and sometimes they may yell at profanities against their will, this cannot be a sin, because a sin has to be a decision, free willed.

    So, homosexuality, if in fact they are born like this, is not a sin.
     
  22. Apr 11, 2003 #21
    Well actually I'm quite gay,and proud of it!I think being gay is not a sin.If god created us to be who he wanted us to be,then we where created condemned to hell before we were ever born.I don't think god would do such a thing.I think mankinds views of gays and blacks,or racism,or just hating anything they don't like or understand,is changing for the better.is it god who condemns us,or our selfs,or is it just those individuals who hate us are the ones,and the rest of us don't see it that way.if we judge ourselfs by our own morals,is'nt that good enough to accept maybe god sees it that way to!and none of us were ever going to hell!only giving the ones who judge, us something to have,to justify their hate,and nothing more!
     
  23. Apr 11, 2003 #22

    FZ+

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    "Love thy neighbour as you love thyself"

    There ya go, masturbation and homosexuality justified at a stroke.

    IMHO, what all this boils down to is people utilising the ambiguity of the scriptures to justify their own prejudices.
    Now, if the bible were the word of God, it is the word through the instrument of mankind, through the prophets specifically. Inherently, it receives their flaws, there petty hatreds and bias. The signs of this are many. For example, the old testament is filled with justifications of slavery and abuse of women, as well as the idea of retribution as an end to itself. The fact is, if these dated texts are to maintain relevance in modern society, we must be prepared to apply them flexibly. This has already been done with the science. This must now be done with scientific facts, but now must be done with morality.

    How can one truly claim to know the intentions of God? If we have a god that is worth worshipping, then his intention would always be for our good? Where lies the harm of homosexuality? I simply diagree with the idea of homosexuality as a "genetic flaw". That is dangerous thinking, the mixing of personal prejudice with half-science. That is what the nazis did when they envisioned the perfect race.
    The reality is there is no such thing as a perfect human. Every man who is born, is worthwhile. Society may find parts undesirable, but in a reasonable society this is meaningless. There is no such thing as such a flaw - the miracle of existence is above that.
    Which brings me to the next point. I think the distinction made between hereditary and "chosen" homosexuality is invalid. What choice does a person really have? Environmental pressure cause the majority of such "choices", and attributing blame thusly is rather unjust. But beyond this, what gives you the authority to judge like this? The ideal of free will means total freedom, and you must respect their decision even if you personally find it wrong. One man's opinion, his choice of life is just as valid as any other. And in theistic terms, judgement is in the eyes of God, not in the eyes of man.
    Remember, judge not lest thee be judged thyself.
     
  24. Apr 11, 2003 #23
    right on FZ+
     
  25. Apr 12, 2003 #24
    i don't see why you have to bring allegedly supernaturally inspired figurative translations of ancient Egyptian burial rights into this. :wink:
     
  26. Apr 13, 2003 #25

    russ_watters

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    Staff: Mentor

    Sorry I haven't been back. WHY is a man generally attracted to a woman? Its genetic.

    Interesting about the identical twins thing - if one twin is gay and another straight, it DOES mean their genes did NOT cause it. The study about the older brother also points to environmental influences. Doesn't that then make it a form of mental illness?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2003
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