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Is OS Zero One Two Hogwash?

  1. Jun 11, 2004 #1
    My opponent, Nico, has been seduced, through playful theatre, in challenging a new dialectic that was created on the internet called OS 012. It was not created by myself, I was just the person who found myself in the center of it, and became so to speak the 'scribe' of it through discussion with hundreds and thousands of global citisens challenging it.

    OS 012 is not a group, organisation, philosophy, metaphysics, or religion. It is basically just an idea, a global dialectic that was formed and will continue to form through discussion.

    It is free of charge and in the public domain. Posted on a website.

    so here is the first challenge to OS 012 from this forum, and in this I am greatly excited. through this process, I hope to come to greater understanding of OS 012, and I hope that OS 012 will also be upgraded to more dominant ideas through this.


    Here goes...

    Nico, what do you have to say? (this discussion was seeded on the truth thread)


    I did not hijack it because I was ignorant. I hijacked it to instigate a discussion about the nature of truth in relation to OS 012. I have much to learn about symbolic logic, and you are helping me.

    SO I ask we start again with a clean slate, and end the personal attacks, if you continue to do this, you will only have your own words thrown back at you, and they are irrelevant inside of a rational discussion.

    We all have much to learn, and no one holds the keys to all truth or knowledge, so let's come down off of our pedastal and engage like to thinking human beings, shall we?




    If what you are saying is true, then I hope to become enlightend by what you have to share in this regard


    tsk tsk, not a very nice way to address your opponent inside of a discussion. and you still seem to be arguing with me, so if I am an idiot, who is more idiotic, me, or the 'intellectual' who loves discussing with me and challenging the ideas?

    I have much to learn, Nico, but I am no idiot. I would be an idiot if I thought otherwise.



    Please do expose my irrationality, that is what OS 012 is all about, I cant hope to know what is certain without you or anyone else.

    art is FALSE in objective reality, and I will explain to you how I came to this conclusion. there is a perspective here that you have not yet gleened, just like there is a perspective about you that I have not yet seen.



    well, you got the website right, but I must challenge your assertation here ( I thought you dont like naked assertations?)

    One, I really dont appreciate the deception of calling OS 012, or me, a cult, or internet cult, or anything assosiated with such garbage. There is no group, I am in no group, and any such refrence is misleading. I am a user of OS 012, just like anyone else. I am no more important than any other OS 012 user.

    However, even if this was a cult, that is irrelevant about the ideas contained inside of OS 012, so let's just focus on the ideas, and not any image you have about it in your head, k?

    You are correct in saying that is was born out of the anti-war movement, and the goal of OS 012 is to create a functioning and rational world peace, yes, this is true.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 11, 2004 #2
    yes, that was true back then, however, it was not true here, I came here just wanting to discuss dialectic because I am writing a book about the whole thing and was hoping to have some enlightening discourse.

    Bubblefish was a 'show' staged to discuss OS 012 and world peace,yes, this is true. I did not stage a show here, until you sir, most passionatly, engaged me in discussion, and , well, i guess old habits die hard and I could not resist!

    ( you really have no sense of humor, by the way, much of the humor goes over your head)


    please refer to above, and stop calling it a cult, it is an unfair, untrue, and deceptive trick that you are doing and it wont serve you i n this discussion.


    that part was kind of like a joke. there is a lot of humor inside of OS 012, and you miss some of it. O.S. stands for open source, but it also is a twist of off Operating System, or Objective, Subjective.

    THis idea is open source, which means through the process of discussion, the most effective ideas get added to it..

    the website that is up now is in BETA mode, and to be honest, I am a bit embarrassed over the presentation, the new site should be up and running soon. THe flamboyance of the site was intentional, but also inneffective and a poor idea I see now, so please forgive the presentation..



    it's just marketing man, playing off of computer terminology. there is also OS 012 extensions, which is where ideas are added...



    I dont think it is fair of you to say 'memetic garbage', that is just another uncouth way of saying you think those ideas are FALSE without giving the reader a chance to decide for themselves and with you not giving any rebuttal in return.

    All ideas, by simple observation, can either be true, or false, or mystery. The 'memetic garbage' that you stated was only saying that all ideas spread, and spread throughout history, and ideas are the seed of all action and creation in civilisation.

    In Memetics, many notice that ideas seem to behave similar to genes or, more poetically, the laws of nature. So what we can understand about the laws of nature, we can understand about our ideas....

    that's it, now, is that all false? please explain.


    why dont you tell me? and if I do or I dont, or if you do or dont, does that negate this idea? please explain how.

    are you saying that ideas do not conflict? that is not nature? is everything not conflicting?

    do you see how even you have spread the idea of OS 012 far better than me on this board? is OS 012, as an idea, not spreading through you? you are proving and are a case in point.



    you do not understand where that was leading? for example, based on your reaction, you think OS 012 is 'absurd' well, absurd is this regard is another way of saying you think OS 012 is false, so you answered the question asked perfectly. OS 012 can either be true, or false, right? (it is a trick question, in case you did not notice. OS 012 is either BS 012, or it is true, or, until you know for certainty, it is mystery. you seem to have already made up your mind, never bother to explore the mystery, tsk tsk, sloppy science!)



    perhaps you dont understand the meaning yet and need to ask questions? Just like I need to ask questions about symbolic logic to understand. you dont ask 'how did you come to that conclusion' or, what does that mean? you just call it 'gibberish' which is another way of saying 'false', which means OS 012 is working on your alredy and you are being led down a path that you are creating.

    look, nico, I am not a scholar, I am an artist and writer, so I approach things from different angles than you do, however, I can still explain something.....

    It is my hope that we both come to understand the superior position, which is both art and science working together in understanding.



    well, then maybe that is so, however, that does not make OS 012 false, or not a global dialectic, which is what it is, by the way. so dialectic is not your thing, big deal. or, you dont understand it yet, but that does not make OS 012 false....

    right now you are just being a politician, trying again to define something with a negative spin to negate the ideas....opinion does not overcome objective observations, sorry, not matter how adept you are at symbolic logic.


    this is not abot OS 012 vs symbolic logic, at least not on my end. One of the contributors to OS 012, a computer mathematician, told me a year ago to get this translated into symbolic logic for peer review. I will do this soon, maybe you will help do this?
     
  4. Jun 11, 2004 #3
    how does that sound like a cult? a cult is a group of two or more who are contained inside of system of belief, ritual, or worship. OS 012 is only an objective system to place ideas, it is not even a path or way of life..

    you sound scared of OS 012...

    you make some funny commentary, but you still have not provided anything objective about where OS 012 is false or misleading, or erroneous...

    why not?





    how is that a false dichotomy? what other categories of information in the mind can their be other than true, false, or mystery? please explain.



    you know, again you need to equate OS 012 with scientology or some cult, and that is absurd, unfair, disrespectful, false, and misleading. It is an open source idea posted on a website that has spread word of mouth all over the world, without any email campaigns or anything of the sort. It is free of charge and in the public domain.

    how is it that you need to create a false image of OS 012 for it to be false? either the ideas are BS or they are not, simple. you sound like a college kid arguing over grunge bands. come on, Nico, you can do better than that. I depend upon you to do better than that.



    sorry, not so esoteric or sci-fi, just simple. OS 012 is a dialectic to apply on the internet through written discussion. when discussion is in written form, yes, irrational ideas are easily exposed because the enviroment for the discussion is a rational one..I will explain more of this if you wish, and already I have shown where you are using deception inside of the discussion in your commentaries about OS 012..





    this is a way of saying that if you have 2+2=5 in your equation somewhere, your ending result will not work effectivly because it contains false information believed to be true...

    this is in error? science works when the information is false thought to be true? really? give an example, please.



    I am sorry that you are disturbed by creative expression. But OS 012 uses a very conservative explanation and usage of certainty, which is, well, we dont know what anything looks like for certain unless we are looking at it. If that spooks you, I am sorry, I hope this explanation soothes your concerns.



    This is how '0' is defined inside of OS 012, it is not a definition of how 0 is applied in mathematics.

    0 represents all information that is beyond our senses or current understanding. when we cannot tell the true from the false....

    what is insane about that? can you explain rationaly?
     
  5. Jun 11, 2004 #4
    again, a term with a certain asciption inside of the dialectic. we use the metaphor of the politician, one who uses deception to bend those to thier will. OS 012, as a dialectic, employs brutal honesty inside of discussion. Like I am being honest, and must, when I say I have much ignorance of symbolic logic and wish to learn more.

    I am challenging YOU know to back up your accusations and bring a more scientific and objective viewpoint into this discusion. as for everyone else, they can decide for themselves which is BS and which is not..



    those are called 'jokes'. and these jokes serve a purpose. those that get OS 012 get the joke and the laugh. those that have false ideas about OS 012 get riled up over them as 'evidence' of thier own illusions...it works, case in point.

    also, all rites reversed is not in OS 012, just a note at the bottom of the website. I spelled 'rites' wrong when I did that, and have not changed it because it also gets people a little riled up too...

    OS 012 is written is a certain presentation that is designed to press peoples buttons, case in point. you are a perfect example of how ideas conflict and spread. you are proving OS 012 effectivness, at least to me, by your actions..



    hehe, o my god, you really are all riled up arnt you? for every one irrational reaction to OS 012, I will show you three rational ones in return.


    also, I am not the only bubblefish on the internet, by the way. sure, some people think it's crazy, but when they are confronted with how they come to thier conclusions, they only expose thier own irrationality in return.

    I also set myself up to be attacked, that is the point. (you fell for it a bit, too, but I also have to eat some crow because you were righ in some regards in our previous discussion and I was wrong)

    It was a philosophy professor who wrote me and said that OS 012 was a 'rational dialectic'. I can copy many praises of OS 012 from others on the net...now the question is, who is right about OS 012?

    what else do you have?



    I dont recalled being banned from a philosophy forum, maybe that was another bubblefish? or maybe I was, I dont remember. I do know that OS 012 was banned from discussion in a number of forums, it seems to get people riled up and have knee jerk reactions. I have also been invited to discuss on many forums too...

    hehe, if you think the George Carlin crowd, a group who discuss fart jokes and video games has any bearing, well, go for it!

    OS 012 was discussed there as a way to show how a discussion can continue with those when they are being irrational. I controlled that disussion for two months, had fun and told jokes...

    you dont seem to get jokes.



    wow, you have searched the net huh? I am not the only person who discusses OS 012 on the net. I take responsibility for the five discussions on the website and nothing more...

    also, you need to read the threads to see what happened. You are finding one or two things that fit your image and your are disregarding the rest..

    I staged OS 012 discussions in many different cultural backgrounds and enviroments to see different reactions from different points of view. I did this with Muslims, objectivists, the deoxy underground crowd, x-files type people, all kinds of different groups all over the world. This was like a testing ground...




    sorry, Nico, you started it. and now you have also started an OS 012 discussion and said many false and deceptive things...


    I will close to say that OS 012 is a work in progress, an attempt to create a dialectic where we all can come to greater understanding of the variety of ideas that conflict in this world to come to greater understanding and world peace.

    if you think I am crazy for wanting world peace, then I am crazy. i am joined by such illuminous crazy people as Buckminster Fuller, Martin Luther King, ALbert Einstien, John Lennon, Nelson Mandela, and millions of unknown people working for such a cause.

    I did not ask to be in this position, it came to me. There is much development for OS 012, and I have made many mistakes in it's presentation. I was very intimidated in the beginning because I am not a scholar, rather, an artist, and who am I to discuss such things? I have had much encouragement from some very brilliant minds, and know full well my own faults and mistakes. I use art to present OS 012, but OS 012 is based on very sound rational princaples, which you have not refuted rationaly

    Nico, you also failed to mention that main crux of OS 012, which is 'all problems are solved effectivly when all sides win' OS 012 creates co-ordinates for an all sides win foriegn policy and looks to the internet to create this through the conflict of idea.

    Thank you, Nico, for bringing OS 012 to this community far better than I ever could..

    Bubblefish
     
  6. Jun 11, 2004 #5
    Here are some positive remarks about OS 012

    Now, does this make OS 012 true? of course not. just like the few negative responsed Nico focused on do not make OS 012 false.

    OS 012 can only be proven to be true, or false, for certain, by the individual. There is something to 'get' inside of OS 012, and when you get it, you also get the joke.

    when you 'get it' well, it kind of jumps out at you like those 3D picture you have to stare at. OS 012 is a specific perspective that only you can teach yourself. The discussions are staged to instigate and assist in this process, and that is the role that I played. Just like the Phil Hendry show, many people have immediate knee jerk reactions, and I play off of this. I also have knee jerk reactions, as many of you can see in my discussions with Nico about 'truth'

    These knee jerk reactions do not serve any of us inside of rational discussion, and many times are the root of much conflict..


    when you get OS 012, or integrate it to a high level, one can have a hieghend state of awareness. This has happened with many all over the world..

    That is what happened to this person, as well as myself, as well as many others.

    I hope that OS 012 can continue into discussion further here, and that many of you can add ideas to the OS , or, replace the older ones with more effective ones in it's place

    If OS 012 is not what it claims to be, then let's make it such!

    and again, please forgive the current presentation, for this I have made many errors, used humor which goes a little over people's heads. A more dignified presentation of OS 012 is in the works.
     
  7. Jun 11, 2004 #6
    I'm sorry, this is where my personality comes in a bit too much too. but I only need Nico's words to defend his attacks against me trying to prove OS 012 as hogwash.

    Qouted by Nico, on another thread...


    yes indeed it does.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2004
  8. Jun 13, 2004 #7
    This is the background of OS 012

    I have an expectation that one or two brilliant minds here will understand the implications of this process, and how internet discussion is a radical novelty occuring in the global synthesis of idea via's Hegel's model of history.

    Such global complexity that technologies have brought us occuring in our lifetime requires new models, philosophies, perspectives. All points of the view of the past are now made irrelevant by the many sided globally connected world community. In this 21 century, the most powerful force is global public opinion, we can see how much influence it has had in current events with the War in Iraq. Even terrorism and 911 show how powerful the global individual is on the world political scene.


    No one in the past predicted or could have predicted the internet. the internet will eventualy collapse world governments and replace it with a open source administrative system run by global citizens via computer.

    This process has already begun, and this is not a far out there idea, or a theory, or a hope, but an objective observation, and requires intelligent discourse.

    Surely Nico cant be the best this community has to offer?


    :uhh:
     
  9. Jul 9, 2004 #8
    OK, even though no one seems to want to engage in discussion about a global dialectic employing ternary co-ordinates on a philosophy forum (odd, I also suggest), this thread does seem to have a readership of close to 100. So those who are interested, but too afraid to say anything (again, odd), there is a more dignified beta site for OS 012, the global dialectic...



    OS 012 Homepage

    also, OS 012 has been picked up in Germany, there are calling it 'trinary dialectic' over there. Here is the German site if you can read German ( I wish I could)
    German OS 012 Site
     
  10. Jul 10, 2004 #9
    just try to summarize and put it on 1 page? i'm sure you'd be surprised at level of participation...
     
  11. Jul 11, 2004 #10
    thank you for the advice. I will start anew and see what happens. I mean, this is a philosophy forum, and this is a global dialectic (first one of it's kind that I know of) and it needs the intelligence here to spread and upgrade, plus, it's fun...


    ok..I try one more time

    thank you


    Moonrat
     
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