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Is the matter of black holes in our universe?

  1. Sep 28, 2004 #1
    Where is the matter of black holes?
    It seems the matter which ever formed or fell into a black hole, is somehow still in our universe, since it still exerts a gravitational effect to the remaining matter in our universe.
    However, it is often said that the singularity at the center of black holes, where all that matter fell into, is an edge of our universe, spacetime becoming meaningless or non-existing.
    As far as we can tell, for matter to be some spatial extension is needed, matter particles take some space. It also appears that according to astronomers, black holes exist with thousands of millions of times the mass of our sun.

    Where is that matter?
    Can we say it is occupying some space in our universe?
    If we say it takes no space at all, where is it? it still shows up in our universe through its gravitation
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 28, 2004 #2


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    Lee Smolin has speculated that the inhabitants of a "universe" inside a black hole might look back at a singularity, much as we look back at the proposed big bang. In this model, perhaps we might consider the contents of a black hole to be in our universe, but outside our observable universe.

    I have speculated that massive objects can locally align the virtual particle pairs of the ZPE EM field such that any black hole (in our universe) will absorb more antiparticles than particles. This would provide a handy mechanism by which antiparticles are preferentially removed from the virtual pairs and more particles than antiparticles are promoted to real status. This would explain why matter inexplicably dominates our observable universe (when matter and antimatter should have been produced in equal proportions in a "big bang"). Our universe may have coalesced concurrently with infinite others (some dominated by matter, some by anitmatter) by just this mechanism. Indeed, it's turtles all the way down in this view.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2004
  4. Sep 29, 2004 #3


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    Since, as you noted, the gravitational effect has observable consequences in this universe, it follows that the matter responsible for it is still causally connected to this universe. Of course, it is also causally connected to whatever internal structure [eg, baby universe] it may possess.
  5. Sep 29, 2004 #4
    of late I have been kicking around kind of a weird idea that instead of a baby universe directly pinching off from a black hole- that instead a new universe [or bundle of universes] "virtually" emerge as a result of the natural quantum computation of the event horizon which chaotically computes cosmically complex wavefunctions to the limit of Bekenstein's bound and thus generates [or "projects"?] an ensemble of parallel quantum universes-
    essentially a universe then would be a natural "virtual simulation" within a simulation within a simulation... ad infinitum-

    hope that isn't too crankish- is it?
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2004
  6. Sep 29, 2004 #5
    So, we have no way but to accept that we are causally influenced by "nowhere" ? :-)
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