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Is the universe examining itself?

  1. Feb 3, 2005 #1
    If we examine the universe and we are made up of the universe then the universe is examining itself. It is no doubt "looking" at itself. Do you agree?
     
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  3. Feb 3, 2005 #2

    arildno

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    That's basically Hegel's view: Man is the universe become self-conscious.
     
  4. Feb 3, 2005 #3

    selfAdjoint

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    John Wheeler has a famous diagram of the universe as a gigantic U, with an eye at the top of one branch looking at the other branch. He rejects the simple interpretation of this that humanity created the Universe and all its past by observing for the last few millenia, but certainly his thought, however nuanced, tends that way.
     
  5. Feb 3, 2005 #4

    saltydog

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    I have difficulty comtemplating what "looking at itself" means since itself is what is doing the looking but it's looking at what is doing the looking. I hate writing awkwards . . .
     
  6. Feb 3, 2005 #5
    How are we made up of the universe? Is the universe not made up of life, planets, galaxies, etc? I need clarification on this one before I can comment further.
     
  7. Feb 4, 2005 #6

    saltydog

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    Alright, my favorite example:

    I once saw this picture: It was a profile of a man that was made out of little stick-and-ball molecules. The man was looking intently at something in his hand . . . it was another stick-and-ball molecule.

    Salty
     
  8. Feb 4, 2005 #7

    Assembled out of or rather derived from, resources found in the universe or rather known universe. I think the host is talking about the “fabric” of universe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2005
  9. Feb 4, 2005 #8
    No I don't. I do believe the universe alows for a place for us to dwell, kind of like a matrix. Just because we dwell in the universe doesn't me we ARE the universe..... And I am talking about not neurons, bones, or muscles but something deeper, like a consciousness or soul.
     
  10. Feb 4, 2005 #9
    This is exactly what I mean as well. If we say we are the universe we are equivocating ourselves with something that is greater than ourselves.

    Each of us has his/her own subjective experiences within our lives. The prefix "Uni" signifies oneness, a certain unity throughout the universe. If each of us has our own subjective experiences, and we are the universe, then there is no more oneness within the universe, thus contradicting the notion of "uni."
     
  11. Feb 4, 2005 #10
    We are part of the universe. To say there's anything beyond our flesh is mere arrogance on our part.
     
  12. Feb 4, 2005 #11

    Now if only we knew what 'the flesh' is.
     
  13. Feb 4, 2005 #12
    Noun: 'Universe' Everything that exists anywhere.

    Universe as a container implies that there is something outside, thus it can not be a “universe” by today’s definition. Now I am not disagreeing with you, since we simply lack the knowledge in true nature of the universe and its fabric. That’s like asking, what energy is? do you know the true nature of energy? its extreme fundamentality?

    Our habit of exploration (science) is few thousand years old, universe on the otherhand is little more then that …
    So let’s keep discovering…
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2005
  14. Feb 4, 2005 #13

    arildno

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    Let's suppose that the universe is examining itself:
    Does it matter?
    Or, if it does matter, does it matter that it matters?

    Marvin, the paranoid android.
     
  15. Feb 4, 2005 #14
    It matters within the frame of reference, we may not be the only explorers, we might not even be the 1st or the last, and again we lack information? Keep exploring… :biggrin:
     
  16. Feb 4, 2005 #15
    Let's suppose that INSERT_SCIENTIFIC_THEORY_HERE.
    Does it matter?
    Or, if it does matter, does it matter that it matters?
     
  17. Feb 7, 2005 #16
    -What scientifically disproves the soul?
    -Whatever answers you just came up with, and are now (I presume) well known scientific facts, where once ideas just like the idea of a soul.
    -So why is this idea false, when the others are true?
    -The only thing arrogant is your statement.

    I would say that it only matters if it gives us the disired conclusion, or solved the problem at hand. Beyond that, math and science are mind games, like chess or logic puzzles. :wink:

    ________________________________________
    In seeking wisdom thou art wise; in imagining that thou hast attained it - thou art a fool.
    Lord Chesterfield
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2005
  18. Feb 7, 2005 #17
    Oh, really? Give me one shred of evidence supporting this "soul" of yours.
     
  19. Feb 7, 2005 #18
    Hegal's remark

    Thanks for the input. It seems I see the same as Hegal.
     
  20. Feb 7, 2005 #19
    Self reference

    I see what it means. I saw a painitng in a book of a pair of hands are painting one another called "Drawing Hands" by M.C. Escher.
     
  21. Feb 7, 2005 #20
    The universe

    No I am talking about the universe. Any part of the universe is included with the term I am referring to. The "fabric of space is included".
     
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