Is Cheating in Class Assignments OK?

[DaveC426913]

I'd only worry about it if it negatively impacts your ability to do well on the exams. It reminds me of something my General Physics 1 professor said... Homework was 15% of our grade, and he admitted he knew that there were solutions for every problem posted online somewhere.

He then went on to say, and I'm paraphrasing, "I don't care if you just copy the solutions. It doesn't hurt me any. But if you do that, you're likely to get a 0 on my exams, and wind up with a 15% for the whole class."

Note that the OP isn't asking whether it will hurt his marks (which is a pragmatic issue), he is asking if it is cheating (which is a moral issue).

Your reponse is tantamount to: don't worry about whether it's ethically wrong, since the practical damage is small.

 

[magpies]

I suppose I could share a story about my high schools math team? They were one of the top ranked math teams in the state I think. Anyhow they tryed to get me to join the club and I at that time not very good at math but a lot of people thought I was really smart so... Anyhow I was with a few of them in class and we was talking about how easy it is to cheat on class work ect I think something about the programable calcs we used?? Dont really remember the conv that well anyhow... So they bring up the fact that they all have a program that looks like the normal calc screen so that when teachers check to see if they have programs installed they just turn the program on and the teachers check the calc for programs and come up with none. So long story short they where using the calcs at math meets ect... So basicaly if they got asked a question all they had to do was find the program and execute. I while not very good at math at the time probably actually knew more then they did I bet even though I would not have been able to "answer" questions they could.

 

[shoehorn]

You can't possibly be serious.

No, I suggest you're the one who isn't entirely serious. For instance, you've already stated that I:

• have no moral compass;
• believe stealing is perfectly acceptable behaviour once one gets away with it;
• believe, in fact, that any proscribed behaviour whatsoever is acceptable in the absence of being caught.

I think we can agree that these are rather odd claims that you've made.

Let me clarify, because there must be a misunderstanding.

It's only cheating if you get caught. i.e. if you do not get caught, you have done nothing wrong.

In reference to the specific situation described by the OP, yes, I'd argue quite forcefully that for such a trivial matter as this, it can't reasonably be considered cheating. My opinion is that anyone who would argue that it was cheating is possibly more interested in making the accusation than looking at the question on its (evidently trivial) merits.

How widely do you spread this philosophy? Does it only apply to school studies?

Murder, idolatry, coveting thy neighbour's odd-toed ungulate; clearly all fair game once nobody's around, really.

:tongue:

 

[DaveC426913]

So basicaly if they got asked a question all they had to do was find the program and execute. I while not very good at math at the time probably actually knew more then they did I bet even though I would not have been able to "answer" questions they could.

I wonder how many of your former classmates landed careers as engineers at BP Oil?

 

[DaveC426913]

No, I suggest you're the one who isn't entirely serious. For instance, you've already stated that I:

• have no moral compass;
• believe stealing is perfectly acceptable behaviour once one gets away with it;
• believe, in fact, that any proscribed behaviour whatsoever is acceptable in the absence of being caught.

I think we can agree that these are rather odd claims that you've made.

These are implications of your claim. If you do believe that something is not cheating if you don't get caught, where is the line drawn? You tell me.

In reference to the specific situation described by the OP, yes, I'd argue quite forcefully that for such a trivial matter as this, it can't reasonably be considered cheating.

So, if it's small enough, it's just too small to fall under the eye of moral conduct?

So, is one silver spoon small enough, or is it only theft if it's the whole box?

My opinion is that anyone who would argue that it was cheating is possibly more interested in making the accusation than looking at the question on its (evidently trivial) merits.

If I were the only one in this thread that felt this way, you might have a point.

[EDIT] No wait. You still wouldn't. It is the OP who is asking, not someone making some unwarranted accusation.

 

[lisab]

I don't see why the Op has to tell the teacher... The teacher should know better then to give out homework that's so easy to do. In my exprience if he tells the teacher he will end up getting the blame for it by both the teacher and the class that is probably using the same site he is to "do" the homework. It's not really his responsiblity but I guess he could take it up and it might be fun to see the responces even if it comes at his expense.

No, easy questions are not the issue. Please re-read the OP.

Answers to the quiz questions are available online. Perhaps the instructor already knows, in which case it's a moot question. But just to be on the safe side, the instructor should be advised.

 

[magpies]

Murder, idolatry, coveting thy neighbour's odd-toed ungulate; clearly all fair game once nobody's around, really.

I think your making his case for him actually.

lisab will you kindly advise his teacher for him I am sure it will help a lot.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

In matters of ethics, it's always best to err on the safe side. The OP should let the instructor know that the answers to the quizzes are available online.

That is certainly an issue unto itself. I would imagine if he is in college that the instructor likely knows and it probably is not a big deal. If he is in high school then the teacher probably does not know and it may be a good idea to let the teacher know.

I just am not sure about the OPs question of what he is apparently doing with these answers, which does not seem to be cheating to me. If he is doing the same exact problems before class that he will be expected to do in class then I could see this as an issue.

 

[DaveC426913]

I just am not sure about the OPs question of what he is apparently doing with these answers, which does not seem to be cheating to me. If he is doing the same exact problems before class that he will be expected to do in class then I could see this as an issue.

The OP is saying that at least some of the questions on his class assignment are exactly the same as the ones he's found, and that he knows exactly the answers.

He clarifies some things in post #7, including that these assigments do contribute to his final mark.

 

[shoehorn]

These are implications of your claim.

No, they're not; they don't follow at all from anything I've said. They are, however, direct consequences of your rather splendidly tangential claim that:

Nope. A person that believes rules only apply when someone's looking is a person that believes rules only apply when someone's looking.

For the life of me, I can't understand how you've decided upon my utter amorality in the course of two posts.

If you do believe that something is not cheating if you don't get caught, where is the line drawn? You tell me.

For me, the line is drawn wherever I'm comfortable drawing it, just as you draw your own conclusions about it. The general question is, after all, entirely subjective by its very definition.

So, if it's small enough, it's just too small to fall under the eye of moral conduct?

Of course. If, for instance, you agreed to share a box of chocolates with someone, would you really consider it to be immoral if they ended up thoughtlessly taking one more than you? Would you really check to see if they'd stolen any of your stuff simply because they'd had one more Vanilla Fudge than you?

So, is one silver spoon small enough, or is it only theft if it's the whole box?

Again, I have no idea why you've chosen to claim I believe depriving someone else of their property is acceptable behaviour.

Indeed, were I a more sensitive soul I might even regard the repeated implications as a personal attack. Thankfully I'm a bit more robust than that, though.

If I were the only one in this thread that felt this way, you might have a point.

Oh please, now you're appealing to proof by simple majority. This really is becoming silly.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The OP is saying that at least some of the questions on his class assignment are exactly the same as the ones he's found, and that he knows exactly the answers.

But he still has to do the work in class, he can not simply write the answer... its iffy. A high school teacher may not like it though at the same time the teacher may also be happy to have a student who actually tries to understand the work in what ever fashion they are doing so. Since it contributes to his mark that may be cheating, if the teacher counts how many are correct and not just whether or not the work was done. Otherwise I do not think it is all that different than studying.

 

[lisab]

But he still has to do the work in class, he can not simply write the answer... its iffy. A high school teacher may not like it though at the same time the teacher may also be happy to have a student who actually tries to understand the work in what ever fashion they are doing so. Since it contributes to his mark that may be cheating, if the teacher counts how many are correct and not just whether or not the work was done. Otherwise I do not think it is all that different than studying.

But it's that iffy-ness that would bother me. I'd definitely clear it with the instructor.

 

[magpies]

I'm pretty sure the only way this instructor is going to find out is if he visits the site himself accidently. :)

 

[ViewsofMars]

So I have in-class assignment every week. The questions on it are some of the challenge questions in textbook. I found the complete solution online so I try to do all the questions before the class to get ready. Since I know the correct answer and everything before doing it in class, is it considered cheating?

Hi caljice (OP). I think you asking that question means to me that you are concerned that you might be cheating. I don't think cheating is a good thing. The reason is simple. It diminishes your chance of grasping information and finding a solution on your own, which can also be applied later on in life. It's better to challenge yourself. Knowledge is a powerful tool. The more you learn the better person you'll be.

 

[caljuice]

Thanks for the replies guys. Surprised by the flood of posts. Half of it is argueing over some weird moral point.

Yeah this was definitely just about morals. I'm personally against cheating like letting people copy assignments, quizes, and what not. This just felt more on the grey line to me.

I don't plan to tell her. The teacher already knows there are solutions online. I think most teacher would know. She told me some students had brought in their iphones with solution manuals to class before. She knows she can't stop cheating but just says they are hurting themselves. She said she doesn't care about it, unless she catches you. Thus not to get caught.

I don't entirely agree with what I'm doing is hurting my capabilities to learn physics. As this is how I would normally study for most classes anyway. I do questions and check if I did them right or what I did wrong. Except, normally I wouldn't know the answer on the tests. I always make sure I know how the question is done. I spent like 2 hour on one question even though I had the complete solution guide, to make sure I got every concept. But I guess it does affect working under the pressure of time?

Also, does it change anything if I said the actual answer is only 1 mark and the work (mainly getting concepts correct) and effort are the other 90%.

Not sure I'm going to do anything with the answers. I was just curious lol and I wanted people say my view was good. But guess it wasn't. If I feel too guilty or I believe it is affecting my performance, then i'll stop.

Oh you I'm in college.

 

[magpies]

Cal. Are you getting better at checking your own answers with this method?

Sometimes getting an answer on a test wrong isn't as bad as not getting it wrong if you get my drift.

 

[caljuice]

I hope I am getting better.

Not only do I get your drift, I'm on your drift. But are your saying it's because so I can learn from mistakes or for some moral reason? Okay, I only get your drift.

If it's to learn from my mistakes, it seems like the learning method will be the same. When I get my assignment back, the solutions get posted. Then I have to compare my work with the solutions and see what I did wrong. I'm doing the same just this time it is immediate and possibly higher mark.

 

[magpies]

Try it without checking the solution once then would be my suggestion to you.

It's both a moral thing and a learn from your mistakes thing imo.

When I was in high school the textbooks had like every other problems answer in the back so if I had wanted to I could have just auto maticaly got 1/2 of my answers right. However I for the most part never even checked the back of the book. Of course I was a fool and also most of the time didnt "do" my homework... Rebellion at its best :)

 

[DaveC426913]

No, they're not; they don't follow at all from anything I've said.

OK, rather than me defending my claims, let's go back to the initial point then and start from there - and put it back on topic.

Your claim is that it is not cheating if you don't get caught. Can you elaborate? How does that apply to the OP and how does it help him? He is concerned about the morality of the issue.

 

[DanP]

So I have in-class assignment every week. The questions on it are some of the challenge questions in textbook. I found the complete solution online so I try to do all the questions before the class to get ready. Since I know the correct answer and everything before doing it in class, is it considered cheating?

No it's not. Is the fault of your instructors not being able to come with a proper test.

 

[shoehorn]

OK, rather than me defending my claims, let's go back to the initial point then and start from there - and put it back on topic.

I'd rather not, if that's okay. The fact that you simply won't admit to making a whole slew of tangential, irrelevant, and really quite offensive assumptions about me and what I've said suggests that discussing this with you wouldn't be especially edifying.

I am, on the other hand, more than happy to discuss it with anyone else.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I'd rather not, if that's okay. The fact that you simply won't admit to making a whole slew of tangential, irrelevant, and really quite offensive assumptions about me and what I've said suggests that discussing this with you wouldn't be especially edifying.

I am, on the other hand, more than happy to discuss it with anyone else.

I'll take over from here Dave. Alright, shoehorn, what are we talking about?

 

[Chi Meson]

No it's not. Is the fault of your instructors not being able to come with a proper test.

I agree with this. I can make up problem in as much time, or faster than it takes to copy a problem from a book. The fact that the problems come out of the book suggest that you are intended to be able to do all "book problems," and know if you can do them correctly.

I'd still run this by the instructor.

By the way, isn't the semester over? Or is this a summer session already?

 

[Jack21222]

Note that the OP isn't asking whether it will hurt his marks (which is a pragmatic issue), he is asking if it is cheating (which is a moral issue).

Your reponse is tantamount to: don't worry about whether it's ethically wrong, since the practical damage is small.

You're exactly right. Thanks for restating my point to show you understand.

The purpose of school is to learn the material. As long as the OP learns the material, the moral concerns of cheating, especially on a borderline issue like this, don't bother me, and in my opinion, shouldn't bother anybody else.

Now, if the cheating is so severe that the OP doesn't learn the material yet gets a grade indicating that they DO understand the material, that's where my moral threshold is reached.

 

[DaveC426913]

... the moral concerns of cheating, especially on a borderline issue like this, don't bother me, and in my opinion, shouldn't bother anybody else.

Well, they seem to bother the OP...

 

[lisab]

You're exactly right. Thanks for restating my point to show you understand.

The purpose of school is to learn the material. As long as the OP learns the material, the moral concerns of cheating, especially on a borderline issue like this, don't bother me, and in my opinion, shouldn't bother anybody else.

Now, if the cheating is so severe that the OP doesn't learn the material yet gets a grade indicating that they DO understand the material, that's where my moral threshold is reached.

Every physics class I had in college was graded on a curve. So someone else's cheating would affect me personally (and everyone else in the class).

 

[magpies]

In that case you either cheat or get bad grades then huh?

 

[lisab]

In that case you either cheat or get bad grades then huh?

Well...there's always the "work like a dog and take the occasional hard knocks" route...

 

[magpies]

If it comes to that I'd rather just cheat :(