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Is this it?

  1. Nov 9, 2005 #1
    Is this all life has to offer?

    Food, sleep, fooling around, work, sex, death, and constant thinking about our existence? Is that it?

    No proof of God, no proof of a soul, no proof of life after death, no proof of spirituality being real, the only proof we have is that we live in a material world with a guaranteed trip to the grave in the end.

    IMO, the only difference separating us from the beasts of the animal kingdom is our "larger brains" and language.
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  3. Nov 9, 2005 #2
    Of course none of the things you mention can be falsified, let alone "proved", and it is not even clear that we will not in the future work out the genetics of how to keep humans alive forever. It is like asking, wow, is that all pizza has to offer, just great tasting dough and sauce and etc. on top. Life offers you the opportunity to follow your bliss, let the dead worry about the dead.
  4. Nov 10, 2005 #3
    I'd say no. IMHO your list is missing the most important thing life has to offer: Life offers us the ability to know things.

    This doesn't qualitatively separate us from the other animals. Eagles know what it is like to fly and to see mice way down on the ground. We know what it is like to fly at 40,000 feet and watch a movie. We can know a lot more if we put our minds to it. We can know, for example, the relationship between group theory and the standard model if we want to, but the other animals, as far as we know, don't have that option.

    I think the ability to know is profoundly important and is a truly wonderful possession or opportunity however you look at it.

  5. Nov 10, 2005 #4

    Good answers, both of you.

    Knowledge is probably the greatest thing to live for.
  6. Nov 10, 2005 #5


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    This is all many people seem to get out of life. Animals get this; I used to wonder how many of my neighbors really got anything deeper out of being alive than did the chipmunks in their yards.

    We differ from the animals in having complex minds. If there is anything more for us than brute existence then it resides there. I feel I have had a deeper life than a chipmunk, but I cannot be sure.
  7. Nov 10, 2005 #6

    Ivan Seeking

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    A statement of faith.

    There are many reasons to believe that there is more to life. Maybe, as some people claim they do, you will be lucky enough one day to personally experience something that convinces you of this. Otherwise, since as you pointed out, nothing can be proven either way wrt spirituality and death, in the end you really just choose what you want to believe. If you choose to believe in nothing without absolute proof, then you will believe in nothing. If you choose to make an informed and sober leap of faith, then that's your reality. Note that at least one definition of "faith" includes the word "hope".

    Something else that is worth remembering IMO: The demand for proof can be applied continuously to almost any complex issue. As a most extreme example of how this influences our thinking, consider this. If a supernatural being appeared in your room and had a talk with you tonight, even though the experience was absolutely real, within a few weeks if not the next day, you probably wouldn't be sure that it happened.
  8. Nov 11, 2005 #7
    It's true Ivan. We have the choice to believe or not to believe.

    And what you said about the supernatural being thing is also true. Haven't you ever realized stuff in life and you get a sense of joy out of finally "getting it", and then the next day you can't get the same sensation, and you're back into the black pit of dispair waiting for the next enlightening moment?
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2005
  9. Nov 12, 2005 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    Yes, I think this describes the married life pretty well. :biggrin:
  10. Nov 13, 2005 #9
    Do you really want to live forever? Is not annihilation the reason we drink so much beer? Check out Lucretious. He has 29 reasons why we should welcome death.
  11. Nov 14, 2005 #10
    i'm sure once I die I will think to myself: why in the world didn't I do this sooner!?>!?!
  12. Nov 15, 2005 #11
    I think being sure of what you believe in helps exterminate a lot of those questions... i used to be hardcore religious 'till i got into physics and astronomy... i underwent an internal personal paradigm shift realizing that there is life out there (you can argue there isn't! but i agree with the numbers... and for some reason my logic tells me yes on this one)... It feels like i am happy and peaceful now, now that i accepted that life isn't just full of trying to convert people into thinking that God will send you to hell if you do bad things, and that the Devil makes you do bad things... it's like woah! A whole new awakening, I tried to get my pastor to think this way, but he didn't wanna have anything to do with it. So i just stopped going to church. Sorry for getting all into the religious sector, but for me... my meaning in life and my place in the universe has been accepted, and this was my personal experience! BTW i know what you mean about those enlightening moments... then thinking the next day... nah can't be... but that's usually only because the majority of the worlds population doesn't experience those enlightening moments with you. Those moments are usually leaps of faith in their own.

    It took me approximately 2 years to finally accept that my religion was misleading and faulty... but it took a lot of self study and introspection. I always was hassled for saying i no longer believed in what the Bible said, so everyone i knew challenged me to prove it... had to spend about 2 years studying the Bible for fallacies. Just now finally accepting it... it's a strange experience to have your world turned upside down and inside out. So to me, the meaning of life is within... it's found in doing what makes you happy, and pleasing your Minds needs and curiosities. I know this isn't about the meaning of life... but there's more to life if you listen to your brain.. i dunno, it's hard to explain.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2005
  13. Nov 15, 2005 #12
    From a Cathloic point of view, I think life is the chance given to us by God to choose him. With this life, we are given the free will to believe or not believe. In life, we encounter God and things not of Him. We are fully desplayed both options and life is the medium through which this is possible.

    And with this, one could say the prusite of knowledge is very well the center of one's life, or should be. When I say knowledge, I mean not just logic, but wisdom that comes from experience, from nature, from inside ourselves, or from where-ever one can absorb it.
  14. Nov 15, 2005 #13

    Ivan Seeking

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    When I finally escaped the proof trap I realized the irony. Through logic we learn that we have the freedom to choose. Religions have always taught that it's all a matter of choice.
  15. Nov 15, 2005 #14


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    Assuming there is an "us" and we are not god, and assuming us are created by the omniscient one at some point in time; doesn't god know before us are even created if us will choose him or not? And if us don't "choose him", we will go before him and be condemned to eternal damnation. That means we get to be tortured for eternity in a place worse than death, a place called hell.

    I've had burns before, little ones mostly with blisters. It would seem I'm in for a much worse situation when I die, because god must have made me knowing I'll refuse to believe in whats-his-name and must therefore be condemned. I suppose those little blisters I got on my lips when I tried kissing my reflection in the shiny boiling tea kettle as a toddler will be nothing in comparison to the pealing skin and cooked flesh I'll be subjected to for eternity by the loving god the christians keep trying to convince me exists. god certainly is a wonderful and loving deity, isn't he.
  16. Nov 15, 2005 #15

    Ivan Seeking

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    Please keep in mind that this is not about religion or any particular religious doctrine. It is about logic, choice, and beliefs.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2005
  17. Nov 17, 2005 #16

    ...life also offers us the ability to dream and have visions, to hold those visions and make them a reality

    There's not too many beasts of the animal kingdom can do that !!!
  18. Nov 17, 2005 #17
    not to be a pesk or anything... but how do you know that? :confused: Really i just like to learn, I'm a spongue.. are there any articles on animals dreaming or anything of that nature.... because i often sit and watch my dog dream... and bark in her sleep.
  19. Nov 17, 2005 #18
    I just know OK ???...I don't know how i know, i just do

    and thanks for pointing out some other things life offers up, the ability to learn and to know without knowing why or how...

    BTW I didn't say animals don't dream, but not many if any can realise their dreams like we can...wouldn't you agree ???
  20. Nov 17, 2005 #19
    I really don't know... I'm in no position to make such a statement without credible evidence. Just because they don't have complicated language like we do, doesn't mean they can't interpret dreams. I'm not saying they can understand dreasm exactly the way we do.. but animals do have memory.
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