Quantum Mechanics & Morality: The Perpetual Conflict

[odersven]

Its odd that for the first time physics reflects actual life philosophy (not the college coarse you took to have it look good on your transcripts), and yet people are still hung up on these order systems like morality.

Morality is dead.
Nihilism is dead.
Ethic is dead.

And this is all so obvious with QM and string theory, yet yuppie college grads are so presistent with their dead greeks.

For instance, there is a topic next to this one about morality and if the winner is morally right. Horace was an idiot people, and it would be best to read him to learn to hate him better. These are limiting, generalizing folds of reason and logic that blind people. You have to remember, that reason and logic are not human - they are tools and deny emotions, which are proofs of experience. Of course they can be helpful and dangerous at the same time, just like a gun.

Quantum Mechanics = Chaos with applied orders.
Morality = order that denies chaos.

 

[loseyourname]

What does the intrinsic behavior of subatomic systems have to do with the conscious priorities of human societies? Don't you think you're making a bit of a leap there?

 

[dschouten]

Its odd that for the first time physics reflects actual life philosophy (not the college coarse you took to have it look good on your transcripts), and yet people are still hung up on these order systems like morality.

Do you actually know anything about QM? Perhaps you could illuminate us on this "quantum leap" from the probabilistic nature of subatomic particles to the nature of consciousness and ethos.

One should be exceedingly careful when applying metaphysical interpretations to physical quantifiers that were never meant to be used other than for the prediction of particular physical phenomena. Quantum mechanics quantifies (albeit incompletely) the behaviour of matter on the subatomic level. That is it. It doesn't make any statements on whether it is acceptable for me to go on a mass killing spree.

 

[odersven]

QM is chaotic at its base level.

There is a possiblity for anything to happen. Because there is the possiblity, ordered systems like morality and ethos will always fall away because of change by the chaotic nature of the universe. So, morality and value systems are nothing but analytical tools man created objectively to accomidate himself toward contempt. They will fall by the way-side while life will continue in its random vibrations.


the point is that there is no measure to gauge whether or not it is acceptible to go on a killing spree - because that gauge is not natural and limits only those dumb enough to restrict themselves from living life with tools not of life. And because a person doesn't have morals, more so, what you consider moral, doesn't mean they are "bad." Maybe they didnt believe everything their parents told them like others.

 

[odersven]

What does the intrinsic behavior of subatomic systems have to do with the conscious priorities of human societies? Don't you think you're making a bit of a leap there?

The "big" is made from the "small." The rules or descriptions of how the small work, directly influence the big. If strings exist, they do vibrate randomly as energy. This is very much like the picture Alvin Toffler offered in his books Future Shock, and Powershift. Seemingly random influx on a large scale causing the vast network of social ties and changes from reactions caused by the interacting influx from seemingly random directions. The chaotic nature of QM at its base is beggining to be reflected in netted social ties as humanity becomes more interconnected.

 

[loseyourname]

Okay, that says something (not much, but something) about how things are, but what does it say about how they should be? That is the study of ethics. Whether or not it eventually falls to the wayside is not the ultimate measure of either the efficacy or truth of a given system. Heck, you and I are systems of small particles ourselves, systems that will soon cease to exist. It does not follow from that fact that all ordered endeavors we undertake are heedless. A person's ethics is simply the guidelines by which he lives his life. You are proposing that we eliminate all ethics, which is just another proposal as to how we should be living our lives. That itself is a system of ethics.

 

[dschouten]

QM is chaotic at its base level.

Its probablistic, there is a difference.

There is a possiblity for anything to happen. Because there is the possiblity, ordered systems like morality and ethos will always fall away because of change by the chaotic nature of the universe. So, morality and value systems are nothing but analytical tools man created objectively to accomidate himself toward contempt. They will fall by the way-side while life will continue in its random vibrations.

Huh? This argument is completely incoherent.

the point is that there is no measure to gauge whether or not it is acceptible to go on a killing spree - because that gauge is not natural and limits only those dumb enough to restrict themselves from living life with tools not of life. And because a person doesn't have morals, more so, what you consider moral, doesn't mean they are "bad." Maybe they didnt believe everything their parents told them like others.

Ahem. Yeah, so like this what I argued against above. No sense repeating it. Nutjob.

 

[pocebokli]

"Quantum Mechanics = Chaos with applied orders.
Morality = order that denies chaos."

Chaos with applied orders? that's like that straight line from geometry that is actually a curve made from infinitely tiny dots? or like 0, which is actually just an infinitely small number or something?

there is no CHAOS, there is no straight LINE, and there is no 0, and no number Pi. NOT FOR US.

We only have chaos with applied order, a straight line made from infinitely long curve made from tiny dots, and a 0 which is just infinitely small and a 3.21etc.

we are unable to experience or simulate or percieve any such a thing in it's true abstract form in any way. We can just point it's direction. but that's like trying to count to 100...being a dinosaur!

I don't think there would be any order at any level if subatomic particles were chaotic at it's base level? Interesting question, though...

so say rather "Morality - order that denies chaos WITH APPLIED ORDERS"
Or probabilistic chaos or whatever.