Jet Blue

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  • #1
edward
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Jet Blue is outsourcing maintenance to El Salvador

145 People traveling on Jet Blue can thank a skilled pilot for avoiding what could have been a tragedy yesterday.

Jet Blue is one of the airlines which out sources the maintenance of its planes to unlicensed mechanics in El Salvador.

http://www.news10.net/storyfull2.aspx?storyid=13225
 
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Answers and Replies

  • #2
Pengwuino
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Oddly enough... want to take a guess at what their original emergency landing site was going to be before LAX?

Yup, can't throw politics into everything now can you...
 
  • #3
Evo
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Edward, no where in that article does it say anything about plane maintenance. Where did you read about maintenance?
 
  • #4
Pengwuino
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And i'll spoil the fun. Original emergency landing site (according to the news at the time so may not be accurate) was the JetBlue maintanence facility in ... burbank?

But then again they may have meant the maintenence facility at JFK... now I am kinda confused.
 
  • #5
TRCSF
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I'm not getting into the outsourcing issue...

I just think the highly trained flight attendants also deserve credit for their role in protecting the passengers in an emergency landing.

(Oh, fyi, Northwest is planning on laying off 1400 American flight attendants and outsourcing at least some of them to East Asians.)
 
  • #6
Pengwuino
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Yah... too bad you can't have highly paid skillful employs right after you just filed bankruptcy.

Airline industry is a pretty dumb place to play those kinda political blame games. Not exactly a thriving industry.
 
  • #7
Evo
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TRCSF said:
I'm not getting into the outsourcing issue...

I just think the highly trained flight attendants also deserve credit for their role in protecting the passengers in an emergency landing.

(Oh, fyi, Northwest is planning on laying off 1400 American flight attendants and outsourcing at least some of them to East Asians.)
I see where they are laying off the flight attendants, but I don't see where they are hiring anyone to replace them. Do you have a link?
 
  • #8
Pengwuino
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They are probably replacing them on international flights.

I find it funny that since the media fooled everyone into thinken outsourcing was a new phenomenon, everything has to be turned political and called outsourcing. I wonder if anyone has any proof that the Jetblue JFK facility doesn't exist and that all maintanence work is being done in el salvador.
 
  • #9
TRCSF
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Evo said:
I see where they are laying off the flight attendants, but I don't see where they are hiring anyone to replace them. Do you have a link?

No, sorry, I caught it on CNN when I was leaving work this morning.
 
  • #10
TRCSF
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Pengwuino said:
They are probably replacing them on international flights.

I find it funny that since the media fooled everyone into thinken outsourcing was a new phenomenon, everything has to be turned political and called outsourcing. I wonder if anyone has any proof that the Jetblue JFK facility doesn't exist and that all maintanence work is being done in el salvador.

You're right, outsourcing has been around for decades. Why, back in the eighties GM laid off a bunch of American workers and moved the plants to Mexico (and wrote themselves fat checks).

If it's good enough for Flynt, Michigan, it's good enough for the rest of the country.

:rolleyes:
 
  • #11
Evo
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I blame unions for a large portion of the outsourcing done. Unions tend be be incredibly short sighted and stupid.

The demand by American consumers for ever cheaper services led to the outsourcing of technical support jobs. American workers that were willing to work for minimum wage usually weren't smart enough to do the job. Americans have no one to blame but themselves for what has happened to jobs here.
 
  • #12
edward
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Evo said:
Edward, no where in that article does it say anything about plane maintenance. Where did you read about maintenance?

Almost all, of Jet Blues maintenance is done in El Salvador. Most of the Airlines are outsourcing maintenance. Few of El Salvador's mechanics are FAA certified. And it was such a cute picture with that planes nose wheels pointing sideways, I just couldn't resist.
I started a thread on airline maintenance outsourcing sometime back.

The big throrn I am my side is the jobs we are losing. But then we always have Walmart and McDonalds.

By Mark Skertic
Tribune staff reporter
Published August 31, 2005


United Airlines said Tuesday that it will shift heavy maintenance of its Boeing 777 aircraft to a Chinese company, part of an effort by the airline to lower its labor costs.

Over the next five years, Ameco Beijing will service all of the 777s in United's fleet. The first work is scheduled to begin in

For every plane they service we get an extra eggroll :smile: , But we lose a lot of Jobs. :mad:
 
  • #13
Evo
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edward said:
The big throrn I am my side is the jobs we are losing.
Get rid of the unions. They protect the jobs of the incompetant. They prevent their workers from doing their jobs to the best of their ability. Ever work for a company that had union workers? The union will have the company agree to allot a certain length of time to a type of job function. So, employee A gets a job order, she's not busy and could get it done in 2 hours, but if she does that, and does it often, then the union won't be able to justify that length of time from the company, so instead of working, employee A eats donuts, calls into radio contests, talks to friends on the phone, shops online, then right before her 72 hours is up she'll pick up the work order. Of course she won't understand it and will reject it back asking for clarification, which starts the whole process over again. I've seen projects that should have been completed in two days take 8 months due to union workers...consistently. The workers are told this gives them job security. This is financial death for a company.
 
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  • #14
Pengwuino
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United Airlines said Tuesday that it will shift heavy maintenance of its Boeing 777 aircraft to a Chinese company, part of an effort by the airline to lower its labor costs.

I'm not sure how the claim "Almost all, of Jet Blues maintenance is done in El Salvador." is verified by a different company sending a fraction of its aircraft maintenance jobs to a Chinese company.
 
  • #15
Smurf
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"Get rid of the unions" is far too simple. Then it would be balanced back to pre-union times when workers could be exploited far too easily. The problem is there are now unions that encompass many businesses. It's companies that are too big for unions, like McDonalds, and unions that are too big for a small business to handle that cause problems. Meh. Capitalist flaw. You could try to balance union power and business power... you could try.
 
  • #16
Evo
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Smurf said:
"Get rid of the unions" is far too simple. Then it would be balanced back to pre-union times when workers could be exploited far too easily. The problem is there are now unions that encompass many businesses. It's companies that are too big for unions, like McDonalds, and unions that are too big for a small business to handle that cause problems. Meh. Capitalist flaw. You could try to balance union power and business power... you could try.
Most successful companies are non-union and the employess are actually happier (in my experience, don't know if actual studies have been made). There are labor laws now to protect workers that didn't exist before unions. Unions had a purpose at one time, they've outlived their purpose.

Of course unions are major problems in the airline and automotive industries IMHO. Outsourcing tech support and customer service is part of the drive by consumers for lower cost products and services and by shareholders for larger profits.
 
  • #17
Pengwuino
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The one thing we all need to realize is that everything business does is our fault. Sure they outsource tech support but no one seems to protesting the ol capitalist way by not purchasing goods from that company. Its nice to fatten up your profit margin by outsourcing but they do it because they know consumers really don't care enough to put their money where their mouth is. If they thought doing so would cut into sales... well what's the point of increasing your profit margin if you lose 30% of your sales globally.

I agree with Evo though... one, because she's so dreamy :!) :!) :!)

And two because "exploitation" in the 20's and the year 2000 is a vastly different idea. In the 20s, its dangerous work, a few cents a day of work, physical abuse, etc. In the year 2000, "exploitation" is paying people only 50x the internatioanl poverty limit instead of 55x or not having ergonomic seating (exagerations but isn't far off from the correct comparison).
 
  • #18
edward
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Pengwuino said:
I'm not sure how the claim "Almost all, of Jet Blues maintenance is done in El Salvador." is verified by a different company sending a fraction of its aircraft maintenance jobs to a Chinese company.

yes 70% is a fraction isn't it? The Jet Blue facility at JFK is officially called a "technical operations campus" Which basically means that we still get to wash the planes and check the tire pressure, but nothing in the line of heavy maintenance is done.

The Union for Northwest mechanics allowed that airline to outsource heavy maintenance several years ago. And the heavy maintenance ,engine rebuilding ect, is the lions share of the cost of maintenance. Using Northwest, and the unions as a constant justification for outsourcing is casting a blind eye on the reality that this country is being run by big business, for big business.

Airlines Outsourcing More Maintenance
January 22, 2005
Their business plans differ in many ways, but there's one area where major airlines and their cut-rate competitors agree: maintenance is a lot cheaper when it's performed by lower-paid mechanics working for outsourcers. JetBlue, Southwest, America West, Northwest and United are among the carriers who outsource major maintenance of their aircraft to contractors in other countries, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal.

• As JetBlue's new A320 Airbus fleet ages, aircraft are sent to a repair hub in El Salvador;
• America West also sends its jets to El Salvador;
• Southwest has always outsourced its major maintenance;
• US Airways mechanics agreed Friday to pay cuts and the outsourcing of 2,000 mechanics jobs;
• Northwest sends its wide-body jets to Singapore and Hong Kong;
• Bankrupt United Airlines recently won union approval to begin using outside contractors for heavy maintenance.

It wasn't long ago that major airlines employed their own highly-skilled mechanics, each with his or her own Federal Aviation Administration license. The mechanics, who often studied for two years before taking the test, could make $60 or more per hour.

Mechanics working for outsourcers don't have to be licensed. Only supervisors are required to hold FAA licenses and are responsible for oversight of the mechanics, who in countries like El Salvador may make $10 to $20 per hour.

Is this endangering long-term safety of the U.S. commercial fleet? The airlines say no but others aren't sure.

Last year, investigators found that deficient maintenance by an outside vendor was partly to blame for the 2003 crash of a commuter flight in Charlotte, N.C. that killed 21 people.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/printme.php?url=/news04/2005/airline_maintenance.html [Broken]
 
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  • #19
Pengwuino
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Hmm... JetBlue's fleet is not exactly aging (one of their tactics is to have as new of aircraft in operation as possible) and your opinion on what the JFK site doesn't really hold water.

Thank you
 
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  • #21
edward
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Evo said:
Outsourcing tech support and customer service is part of the drive by consumers for lower cost products and services and by shareholders for larger profits.

I was on hold on the phone this morning for 40 minutes waiting for some guy in India to pick up. I guess I should just chalk that one up in the "larger profits for shareholders column." :smile:
 
  • #22
Pengwuino
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edward said:
I was on hold on the phone this morning for 40 minutes waiting for some guy in India to pick up. I guess I should just chalk that one up in the "larger profits for shareholders column." :smile:

Stop buying/using their service then.
 
  • #23
Evo
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edward said:
I was on hold on the phone this morning for 40 minutes waiting for some guy in India to pick up. I guess I should just chalk that one up in the "larger profits for shareholders column." :smile:
Yep, sounds like the company you do business with is too cheap to hire enough people to handle their call volume. :tongue:
 
  • #24
edward
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Pengwuino said:
Hmm... JetBlue's fleet is not exactly aging (one of their tactics is to have as new of aircraft in operation as possible.

You got the idea now. Guess where they keep those aircraft when not in use. Hmmm let me see now...could it be, A ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT HANGER at JFK called the technical operations campus.

You kids won't see the light until there is no light left to turn on. :wink:
 
  • #25
Pengwuino
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Wow, are you trying to argue in my favor? Thanks.

I'm sure successful airliners thrive off of grounded aircraft.
 
  • #26
edward
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Pengwuino said:
Stop buying/using their service then.

Yeah smarty pants, it is a product that was made in China, sold in the USA and the tech service is in India. I should have known better. :wink:
 
  • #27
Pengwuino
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yes you should have. No ones forcing you to put up with it.
 
  • #28
edward
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Pengwuino said:
yes you should have. No ones forcing you to put up with it.

The problem is that when you buy a product, there is no way to know that the support services is in Bangalore. And if it isn't in Bangalore today it probably will be next week. :smile:
 
  • #29
edward
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Evo said:
Yep, sounds like the company you do business with is too cheap to hire enough people to handle their call volume. :tongue:

Most companies are anymore. :confused:
 
  • #30
Smurf
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edward said:
yes 70% is a fraction isn't it?
Yes, 70% can be expressed in the fraction 70/100, or 7/10.
 
  • #31
Pengwuino
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edward said:
The problem is that when you buy a product, there is no way to know that the support services is in Bangalore. And if it isn't in Bangalore today it probably will be next week. :smile:

Well you can stop buying from them... tell friends not to buy from them (especially if its a infrequent purchase)... etc etc.
 
  • #32
TheStatutoryApe
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edward said:
The problem is that when you buy a product, there is no way to know that the support services is in Bangalore. And if it isn't in Bangalore today it probably will be next week. :smile:
It's called being a responsable consumer. Do you not check up on the customer service and satisfaction of the products that you buy before you perchase them? If not, that's your own fault. It's pretty easy to do now considering that you have the internet at your disposal.
 
  • #33
edward
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Evo said:
It appears Blue outsources 63% which is not as high as several other airlines. http://www.amtonline.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=1713

This article is dated 8-8-05.

From this article is a sub link:

It seems that the FAA inspectors who inspect domestic and foreign aircraft maintenance facilities are union workers. I did not know that. No wonder we have such an enormous budget deficit. I'll bet we could get a better deal by hiring Chinese inspectors, and firing all of those lazy, lame, coffee guzzling civil serpants :wink:


The Professional Airways Systems Specialists (PASS) is the union that represents more than 12,000 employees of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Department of Defense (DoD). Our members are dedicated to certifying the safety and the efficiency of the National Airspace System (NAS); maintaining and supporting this nation’s air traffic control system with the utmost professionalism; and ensuring the integrity, the reliability, and the safety of the commercial and general aviation industries. Whenever you fly, the work our members do behind the scenes helps you get there safely.

http://www.passnational.org/Public/what_is_pass_.html [Broken]
 
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  • #34
Pengwuino
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Smurf said:
Yes, 70% can be expressed in the fraction 70/100, or 7/10.

Smurf sucks 10/10 times :tongue2:
 
  • #35
edward
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Smurf said:
Yes, 70% can be expressed in the fraction 70/100, or 7/10.

Thanks Smurf, I hope you did't strain any brain cells figuring that out. I thought it was 22/30 or 11/15 :wink:
 
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