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Joe

  1. Mar 27, 2005 #1
    Joe is a fourteen-year-old boy who wanted to go to camp very much. His father promised him he could go if he saved up the money for it himself. So Joe worked hard at his paper route and saved up the forty dollars it cost to go to camp, and a little more besides. But just before camp was going to start, his father changed his mind. Some of his friends decided to go on a special fishing trip, and Joe's father was short of the money it would cost. So he told Joe to give him the money he had saved from the paper route. Joe didn't want to give up going to camp, so he thinks of refusing to give his father the money.

    Should Joe refuse to give his father the money?
     
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  3. Mar 27, 2005 #2

    brewnog

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    Yes, blatantly.
     
  4. Mar 27, 2005 #3
    No!!! Write up a contract with a nice high interest rate, then loan him the money :smile: Or I guess, an interest rate slighlty lower than what the father would be able to get.
     
  5. Mar 27, 2005 #4
    Poor Joe, tuff call. My Dad worked really hard, and sometimes we just squeaked by. He always made sure his kids were fed and clothed before he was. Heck he was 65 before he was able to buy his first new car. I'd give my Dad the money, even if I was only 14, because he did so little for his own enjoyment.
    Now does Joes Dad sacrifice for his family or was he not a good parent? Only Joe would know that. So only he could make the choice.
     
  6. Mar 27, 2005 #5

    Danger

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    Doesn't sound as if he's sacrificing much if it's a fishing trip. I've always thought of that as a luxury item. Why doesn't he have even that meager amount in his own accounts? And wouldn't a good parent, if for no other reason than to set an example, ask Joe to lend him the money rather than demand it?
     
  7. Mar 27, 2005 #6

    Astronuc

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    Father is in breach of a promise and therefore not entitled to the money.

    Contractually, Joe is not obligated to give the money to the father.

    However, should a son defer to a parent, even if the parent's request is unreasonable? Filial piety dictates yes.

    We do not know all the facts. It would seem Joe's father is being rather selfish. I would never ask my son to make such a sacrifice. If I needed money for an emergency or to buy food or pay bills, that would be entirely different. Then it would be money spent for the good of all.

    But asking a son to give up a camping trip, which was promised, and instead spending the money on oneself is simply reprehensible and provides a very poor example of human behavior. :grumpy:
     
  8. Mar 27, 2005 #7
    You know after rereading it. I do not think either should go. I mean, if Joe's dad has to borrow $40 from his kid, then he needs to be worrying about food and shelter instead of a fishing trip.
     
  9. Mar 27, 2005 #8

    Astronuc

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    After further reflection, I have to wonder if the father is an alcoholic and simply wastes money on alcohol. Possibility.

    Otherwise the family is very poor.

    There are various programs in the US for assistance to such families, including sponsoring children to go camping.
     
  10. Mar 27, 2005 #9

    Moonbear

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    My conclusion is that Joe's father is a really lousy parent.

    1) If he really doesn't have a spare $40, Joe should be getting a lesson on sometimes needing to give up luxuries when you need all the money for necessities. Rather than sending the kid off for a job to pay for a camping trip, he should have been taught to start saving his money, something his father clearly doesn't know how to do.

    2) If the father doesn't have a spare $40 for the son's camping trip, he shouldn't be taking time off work and going on a fishing trip of his own; he should be at work earning money to make sure there is food to go on the table and saving any extra for emergencies.

    3) If a parent promises something to a kid, wanting the money to go play is not a legitimate reason to break that promise (coming up short paying the bills or finding out the trip won't be as well supervised as you were led to believe would be more legitimate reasons).

    4) When finances are tight, neither of them should be going on trips that cost money they can't afford.

    Incidentally, I have an aunt who was like this with my cousins. They had paper routes, and would give her what they earned on their paper routes to put in savings for them, and then she spent their money because she never controlled her own spending and was always in debt. What they learned was if they didn't spend it right away on something for themselves, their mother would squander it on something for herself, so now neither of my cousins knows how to save any money either.
     
  11. Mar 27, 2005 #10

    BobG

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    Not enough info. One possible version.

    Joe is a fourteen-year-old boy who wanted to go to camp very much. His father promised him he could go if he saved up the money for it himself. Joe's father adds he thinks it would be good for Joe to learn that you work for the things you need and want. Joe's father ought to know. He's a salesman who's income varies wildly, a problem compounded by Joe's belief that the money in the good times is better spent improving his image among his potential clients than saving for the bad times. So Joe worked hard at his paper route and saved up the forty dollars it cost to go to camp, and a little more besides. But just before camp was going to start, his father changed his mind. Some of his potential clients decided to go on a special fishing trip, and Joe's father was short of the money it would cost. So he told Joe to give him the money he had saved from the paper route. Joe didn't want to give up going to camp. Joe had worked hard and succeeded just like his dad had encouraged him to do. Why should he give up what he has earned just because Joe's dad couldn't bring in a steady income He thinks of refusing to give his father the money.

    Should Joe refuse to give his father the money?No, he should give him the money. Joe's dad should plan better for the bad times, but it depends on the environment he works in. It's not a totally off the wall idea that the image he presents would affect how often and how long the bad times occurred. Joe might find he's earned something more valuable than the camping trip ... or he might find out he's just a sucker.

    Anther possible version:

    Joe is a fourteen-year-old boy who wanted to go to camp very much. His father, home and sober for a change promised him he could go if he saved up the money for it himself. So Joe worked hard at his paper route and saved up the forty dollars it cost to go to camp, and a little more besides. But just before camp was going to start, his father changed his mind. Some of his friends decided to go on a special fishing trip, and Joe's father was short of the money it would cost. So he told Joe to give him the money he had saved from the paper route. Joe didn't want to give up going to camp, so he thinks of refusing to give his father the money. While Joe doesn't think it's fair of his dad to take his money, life at home gets mighty unpleasant when you talk back to Joe's dad. While his dad would never actually hit him, you can bet Joe would hear exactly what his dad should do to Joe and let Joe know just how worthless a person he really is.

    Should Joe refuse to give his father the money? Yeah ... what other option does he really have? Next time though, he ought to keep a little hidden away. Next time his dad wants his money, he ought to just lie about how much money he's saved up.

    Sad to say, the second is probably more likely.

    (Of course, in other ways besides money, I've known some that could fit both scenarios darn near simultaneously.)
     
  12. Mar 27, 2005 #11

    russ_watters

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    We're not doing your ethics homework for you, are we?
     
  13. Mar 28, 2005 #12
    oh no ... if it was a hw i would put it in the hw section
    than u all 4 posting ur opinions
     
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