Just bought a bullseye

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He's basically saying that, yes; he's just doing a really bad job of it.

As for your hypothesis, it seems odd to me that

1] you would accept that the cops are possibly singling him out, you've just picked a different factor, namely his age & gender as opposed to his car's model and colour. Why would reject one and accept the other? I would have thought you'd unilateraly reject the idea of cops being biased in their selection.

2] you would think it plausible that a cop would ignore something so easily recognizable at a distance as the colour of the car, yet see through the windshield and be able to identify the gender and age of the driver. It seems to me a pretty good assumption that a cop decides he is going to stop a car when the car is still quite far away.
Ah that's not what I was saying... the make of the car definitely does impact what's going on I said that in my post. Other contributing factors of course would be that he's a young male, possibly the colour of the car allows him to be more noticable but maybe the cop just saw his car, or heard the engine, or heard his music etc. etc. I do agree that he was probably singled out from the 'herd' so to speak based on particular factors but to jump to the conclusion that 'red sportscars' get pulled over more often is a bit premature in my opinion. As well you would be surprised at how well the cops can spot the driver of a car lol. I was going to talk about how race can also influence getting tickets and even how it influences being able to beat the ticket after you get it but it's apparently 'racially insensitive' to talk about that stuff.
 
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Are you bring deliberately obtuse?
I'd be ashamed if I resorted to this.
 

Moonbear

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Are you bring deliberately obtuse?
Of course he is.

Does that mean no one gets pulled over for going 8 over except red sportscars?
I have a friend who got pulled over for going 7 over and for going 8 over and doesn't drive a red sportscar.
And you did not specify the speed limit. 7 or 8 over in a 15 or 20 mph zone IS a lot and would get almost anyone a ticket. 3 over in a 15 mph zone is within a fairly normal range of variation just in speedometer accuracy. 8 over in a 60 mph zone is just normal keeping up with traffic.

Of course, your friend may have fallen into that OTHER category of cop magnets...young male.

I do think red cars are a bigger target. My only speeding ticket and one other time pulled over and got off with a warning were both when I owned a red car (it wasn't even a sports car, just a Focus). Neither time was I going very much over the limit. My other cars have been white, black and light blue. I won't count the white one, because that was my first car and aside from still being an overly cautious driver then, I lived in an area with such traffic congestion it was literally impossible to speed. But, my driving habits have been fairly consistent with the black, red and light blue cars. I owned the red car for the shortest amount of time too, so the odds would be more likely that if I was just getting my fair share of being picked from the crowd, I'd have been ticketed more in the black or blue cars than the red one.
 
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leroyjenkens said:
Does this guy get a free pass to break the rules?
Which rule did I break? It's nothing personal, but you do suck at driving. Don't worry, it will come with time :wink:

DaveC426913 said:
Are you bring deliberately obtuse?
Well, he is definitely not acute and we can all agree that he is not right.
 

turbo

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One day when returning east from a consulting job in NY state, I got pulled over on the Massachusetts turnpike. I was in the right lane, traveling with the flow of traffic, and a trooper standing under an overpass with a radar gun motioned me to the breakdown lane. There was a line of at least a dozen cars there, waiting to get written up. When they got to me, I told the trooper that I was in the travel lane, getting passed on the left, and that it pretty much stunk that every car getting ticketed had out-of-state plates. Not a Mass plate among 'em. He just grinned at me and said we're cracking down on speeders and we can't pull over everybody.

Just a little revenue-boost for our neighbor to the south. BTW, I was driving a late-model maroon Crown Victoria, so it's not they were targeting the vehicle nor the driver - just the license plates. ME, NH, NY, etc were all well-represented in the line-up.
 

Moonbear

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One day when returning east from a consulting job in NY state, I got pulled over on the Massachusetts turnpike. I was in the right lane, traveling with the flow of traffic, and a trooper standing under an overpass with a radar gun motioned me to the breakdown lane. There was a line of at least a dozen cars there, waiting to get written up. When they got to me, I told the trooper that I was in the travel lane, getting passed on the left, and that it pretty much stunk that every car getting ticketed had out-of-state plates. Not a Mass plate among 'em. He just grinned at me and said we're cracking down on speeders and we can't pull over everybody.

Just a little revenue-boost for our neighbor to the south. BTW, I was driving a late-model maroon Crown Victoria, so it's not they were targeting the vehicle nor the driver - just the license plates. ME, NH, NY, etc were all well-represented in the line-up.
Yep, that happens in NJ and OH too (probably every other state as well).

OH especially likes to target MI drivers, because the two states don't have a reciprocal agreement on traffic violations. That means the MI drivers have to pay their ticket then and there and can only hope for reimbursement if they win the fight...and of course, OH knows that 99% of the time, the MI driver isn't going to waste more time and money traveling back to fight the ticket, because MI never gets any record of the violation and they won't get any points on their license anyway. It's quite a racket.

In NJ, we used to call it an out-of-state highway tax. Someone could be getting passed by every other car on the road, but if they had an out-of-state plate, they'd be the one pulled over. My step-brother lives in FL, and he's been pulled over on the flimsiest of excuses. Like many other states, FL only has one license plate on the rear of the car. He got pulled over for not having a license plate on the front. :rolleyes: You KNOW the cop was just hoping to find something else when he pulled him over, because they aren't so stupid not to know what states have one vs. two plates.
 
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Of course he is.
I could say the same about the two of you, but intead, I choose to actually argue my point instead of assuming it's the gospel truth and belittling anyone who disagrees with it.
And you did not specify the speed limit. 7 or 8 over in a 15 or 20 mph zone IS a lot and would get almost anyone a ticket. 3 over in a 15 mph zone is within a fairly normal range of variation just in speedometer accuracy. 8 over in a 60 mph zone is just normal keeping up with traffic.
He was on the highway. I don't know the speed limit, but it's not 15 or 20.
Of course, your friend may have fallen into that OTHER category of cop magnets...young male.
So could the TS.
Which rule did I break?
Guidelines on Language and Attitude:
Foul or hostile language will not be tolerated on Physics Forums. This includes profanity, obscenity, or obvious indecent language; direct personal attacks or insults; snide remarks or phrases that appear to be an attempt to "put down" another member; and other indirect attacks on a member's character or motives.
What you said is definitely breaking the rules, and I reported you for it.
It's nothing personal, but you do suck at driving.
Care to back up anything you say with facts, or do you just want to continue to make unfounded childish remarks? I need to know if you're ever going to say something constructive, so I know if I should just go ahead and ignore you.
 
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Would you all stop sniping like a bunch of petty.... <insert insult here>.

The answer to this thread is simple.

If you speed, you have a change of getting caught and busted. Please note that almost everyone speeds from time to time.
If you drive a red foreign sports car, you are essentially wearing a sign with large agressive letters saying 'PULL ME OVER'. Red is associated with speed (there is a common joke amongst my engineering firends that when you paint somethin on your car red it gives you 10 extra brake hp).

That is all there is to it, that is the way of things.
 
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DaveC426913

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...I choose to actually argue my point instead of assuming it's the gospel truth and belittling anyone who disagrees with it.
No one is belittling you because they disagree. The trouble is that your arguments are non sequitur - they do not follow.

In post 15 and again in post 22, you take what what said by someone else and extrapolate to an absurd result. One does not follow from the other.

The apparent belittlement comes when this behaviour seems consistent. Is it not unreasonable to ask if you are aware of it. Generally we try to treat almost all arguments respectfully, but there is always the possibility that someone is joking, tongue-in-cheek or is simply having fun trolling. When a nonconstructive behaviour starts repeating, it's not unreasonable to call somoene out on it.

OK, so you're not aware of it.
 

DaveC426913

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Would you all stop sniping like a bunch of petty.... <insert insult here>.

The answer to this thread is simple.

If you speed, you have a change of getting caught and busted. Please note that almost everyone speeds from time to time.
If you drive a red foreign sports car, you are essentially wearing a sign with large agressive letters saying 'PULL ME OVER'. Red is associated with speed (there is a common joke amongst my engineering firends that when you paint somethin on your car red it gives you 10 extra brake hp).

That is all there is to it, that is the way of things.
For all your judgementalism, you didn't provide an answer.

Do red sportscars get pulled over more?
 
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For all your judgementalism, you didn't provide an answer.

Do red sportscars get pulled over more?
Yes, now you could ask that I provide some study to back this up, but there really would be no point, there will be ones showing it's true and others showing its false.

A bright red loud sportscar brings attention to itsself more than an old ladymobile. Bringing attention to yourself when you are doing something illegal will increase the chances of you getting caught. Also I do suspect that in this case it's not the fact its just red, its the fact it's a foreign car too.

You just need to look at insurance quotes, red cars ALWAYS cost more to insure (in the UK) especially if its a 'hot' model. A red Golf GTI vs a black Golf GTI costs about 5%-10% more to insure.
 

DaveC426913

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Yes, now you could ask that I provide some study to back this up, but there really would be no point, there will be ones showing it's true and others showing its false.

A bright red loud sportscar brings attention to itsself more than an old ladymobile. Bringing attention to yourself when you are doing something illegal will increase the chances of you getting caught. Also I do suspect that in this case it's not the fact its just red, its the fact it's a foreign car too.
Yes, we all get the hypothesis. You are adding nothing new there.

You are insisting the answer is simple.

So what is it? You don't have any more of an answer than the rest of us.
 
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Yes, we all get the hypothesis. You are adding nothing new there.

You are insisting the answer is simple.

So what is it? You don't have any more of an answer than the rest of us.
You are never going to conclusively prove it either way.
 

DaveC426913

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Then why did you so arrogantly claim the answer is simple?
Experience. Non scientific, but it works.

Red cars tend get pulled/stolen/etc etc more often than others. Red also tends to be associated with speed.
 

DaveC426913

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Experience. Non scientific, but it works.

Red cars tend get pulled/stolen/etc etc more often than others. Red also tends to be associated with speed.
So, you're simply restating what the rest of us have been struggling with but pretending you're enlightening us. OK.
 
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No one is belittling you because they disagree. The trouble is that your arguments are non sequitur - they do not follow.

In post 15 and again in post 22, you take what what said by someone else and extrapolate to an absurd result. One does not follow from the other.
Can you quote the exact instance of where I did that?
This just sounds like a cop out.
The apparent belittlement comes when this behaviour seems consistent. Is it not unreasonable to ask if you are aware of it. Generally we try to treat almost all arguments respectfully, but there is always the possibility that someone is joking, tongue-in-cheek or is simply having fun trolling. When a nonconstructive behaviour starts repeating, it's not unreasonable to call somoene out on it.

OK, so you're not aware of it.
The belittlement comes from immaturity. There's no reason to belittle somebody because they disagree with you. If you think they're wrong, prove them wrong. Calling them names does nothing constructive, it's just an outlet for your frustration.
 
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So, you're simply restating what the rest of us have been struggling with but pretending you're enlightening us. OK.
I'm saying you are all arguing to no end as there will be no conclusive proof either way. It's therefore pointless having an argument about it. This thread did decend into argument as opposed to discussion.
 
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DaveC426913

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Can you quote the exact instance of where I did that?
This just sounds like a cop out.
Something about concurrent realities. It went downhll from there - everytime you drew another absurd conclusion from what someone else had stated.
The belittlement comes from immaturity. There's no reason to belittle somebody because they disagree with you. If you think they're wrong, prove them wrong. Calling them names does nothing constructive, it's just an outlet for your frustration.
No, the criticism comes from the fact that, in https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=350500", you freely admitted that you drive without any consideration for other vehicles on the road. Basically, you freely admitted to driving like a jerk. Why are you now complaining that your chickens have come home to roost?

You make it very difficult to take you seriously when
a] you show no understanding of group dynamics like driving (SaladSamurai's complaint)
b] you act (either advertantly or inadvertantly) obtuse about others' points about driving (my complaint).
 
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Something about concurrent realities. It went downhll from there - everytime you drew another absurd conclusion from what someone else had stated.
That was hyperbole to prove a point. How was it a non sequitur? And what else did I say that was an absurd conclusion? Don't just pooh-pooh everything I say. It seems like anything you encounter that you can't refute, you automatically conclude it's not worth refuting. That's not a respectable strategy and it's very transparent.
No, the criticism comes from the fact that, in an older thread on driving habits
What does that have to do with this thread?
you freely admitted that you drive without any consideration for other vehicles on the road.
Basically, you freely admitted to driving like a jerk.
I did not. That's your interpretation. Apparently anyone who drives differently from the way you think they should is driving like a jerk.
Why are you now complaining that your chickens have come home to roost?
I'm complaining that you can't discuss the issue at hand. How I drive has nothing to do with this thread, so bringing that up is irrelevant.
You make it very difficult to take you seriously when
a] you show no understanding of group dynamics like driving (SaladSamurai's complaint)
b] you act (either advertantly or inadvertantly) obtuse about others' points about driving (my complaint).
It has nothing to do with taking me seriously. This whole spiel you're putting on right now is just a distraction from the matter at hand. You're hijacking the thread.
 
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:bugeye:
 
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Do you two want to step outside and have a fight about this?
 

DaveC426913

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This isn't a fight. leroy's discussion style simply needs some work if he's to be taken seriously. I'm just not being very patient about it.
 
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Top 10 makes/models most likely to be ticketed for speeding (100% - the average rate for all cars):

Hummer H2/H3 463%
Scion tC 460%
Scion XB 403%
Mercedes Benz CLK63 AMG 397%
Toyota Solara Coupe 306%
Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG 276%
Scion XA 275%
Subaru Outback 266%
Audi A4 264%
Toyota Matrix 264%

Nine out of ten are foreign makes. Four are common teenager rides. Only two are sport cars.

Conversely, eight out of ten on "the least ticketed" list are domestics, one is a Jaguar (up until recently owned by Ford), and one is Mazda (also partially owned by Ford). The #1 on the least ticketed list, Jaguar XJ, comes with a 400 hp V-8 and would rip the Mitsu 3000GT to shreds in a straight line.
 
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Top 10 makes/models most likely to be ticketed for speeding (100% - the average rate for all cars):

Hummer H2/H3 463%
Scion tC 460%
Scion XB 403%
Mercedes Benz CLK63 AMG 397%
Toyota Solara Coupe 306%
Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG 276%
Scion XA 275%
Subaru Outback 266%
Audi A4 264%
Toyota Matrix 264%

Nine out of ten are foreign makes. Four are common teenager rides. Only two are sport cars.

Conversely, eight out of ten on "the least ticketed" list are domestics, one is a Jaguar (up until recently owned by Ford), and one is Mazda (also partially owned by Ford). The #1 on the least ticketed list, Jaguar XJ, comes with a 400 hp V-8 and would rip the Mitsu 3000GT to shreds in a straight line.
I'm curious. Do you have citation or a link to a site where you got this information from? You don't just wander around having this stuff memorised, do you? :smile:
 

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