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Kecksberg: History Channel, James Oberg

  1. Mar 7, 2005 #1
    not sure if this has aired before, but it mentioned Gumble/SC Fi's (in 2003,forget when)

    This was excellent--at least Cosmos 96 was debunked (James Oberg even reaches this 'conclusion',yet begins his own 'conspiricy theory' ---mindboggling; perhaps his 'balloon solutions' should be re-studied by his fellow debunkers.)

    Yet the 'solution' would seem to be a 'fireball'--presented by an amature astonomer-well done, if you don't allow witnesses to get in the way--
    all witnesses are 'unreliable'


    The most curious event in all of this is actually 'two guys in suits' show up
    and have a 'talk' with.....sounds like MIBS!...but sorry to say,only witness testimony here....


    tonight, there's a show of interest: Alien Agenda-abductions
    10 PM EST History
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 7, 2005 #2

    Ivan Seeking

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    I'm not sure what to think of the fireball explanation. The big problem is the physical evidence - the trees. If these were damaged when claimed and as indicated by the core samples, then the meteor explanation gets a little tough to buy. It also does seem that the Cosmos 96 pod cannot be the explanation. There were no other re-entries or missile tests that evening.

    Note that the proponent of the fireball explanation completely ignores the physical evidence and instead bases his theory on eyewitness accounts. Sounds like pseudoscience to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2005
  4. Mar 8, 2005 #3
    The 3 independent eye witnesses describe an 'acorn shaped' object. 2 independently describe
    'strange writing'-John Murphy took photos-? Other witnesses were being held back-saw from distance smoke/glow.

    Why have no State Troopers come forward? Why have no 'army' guys come forward?
    Did the National Guard respond? Where did the 'troops' come from? Are there any records of this event? These would seem to be simple answers to simple questions--yet nothing!
    (So what if they were using 'army trucks/equipment/uniforms'....doesn't mean they weren't
    'special' units.)

    At least 3 reporters there and no one interviews the guy 'in charge'?

    Cosmos 96 was 13 hours earlier and officially nowhere near USA. "Orbital debrie" has been ruled by NASA. The object was seen in Canada ....The local reports suggest it landed thereabouts, but officially next day "NO physical evidence"-from State Police.

    What did John Murphy see? Who were the 2 suits who identified themselves as "government agents" to Ms. Mazza. And why does Murphy 'change' after the interview--edits and censors his radio program- stating specificly that no government agent of any branch had 'contacted him', but that witnesses had called requesting that they be removed and some that they've 'changed their story'.

    This story is the 'smoking gun' of government conspiricy---Blue Book report is from Acme, PA (funny huh-old cartoon fans of Bugs and Road Runner-).....couple agents 2 hours, nothing.

    "Quite a number of miltary guys were there" --and not one of 'em has spoken yet-who's your leader?

    What's the point in secrecy about this now?
     
  5. Mar 8, 2005 #4

    Ivan Seeking

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    I agree that the fireball meteor makes little to no sense unless it or a fragment came down in Kecksburg. If it did there would have been no secrecy. The more I look at this story the more convinced I am that the government was [and is still] hiding something. That doesn't mean that ET was involved but at this point, to me it seems impossible that nothing happened in Kecksberg. So long after the event one must wonder why we don't know what happened. Stories like this certainly lend credence to conspiracy theories.
     
  6. Mar 8, 2005 #5

    Ivan Seeking

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    One interesting note in all of this. We are supposed to believe that a passing meteor has caused even families to go separate ways with extreme animosity towards each other. This event virtually split the town of Kecksberg down the middle, and still does nearly forty years later, according to residents.

    It seems that irrational skepticism can even destroy families.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2005
  7. May 22, 2005 #6
    What REALLY happened at Kecksburg!

    Hi,

    I am Paul Everitt and I live in Louisville, CO. I went to high school in Huntsville, AL and the parents of many of my classmates were actually rocket scientists. I am also a WWII history and aviation buff.

    This is a precursor to the Kecksburg incident. It took me about 10 minutes on the internet to solve this case! I passed this information on to the SCI-FI channel and never got an acknowledgement. All the information that they gave fits this scenario. Personally I get very aggravated at people who attribute an extraterrestrial origin to things that they can't explain after 30 seconds of examination.

    Something re-entered the Earth's atmosphere in December of 1965. It is supposed to have maneuvered before it crashed. It was heading north to south. The military came at got it. It took a crane and a flat bed truck to move it. GREAT secrecy surrounded this object.

    It wasn't any alien spacecraft!!!!!!

    Go online and look up the Discoverer/Corona series of probes. The early ones were basic research and test of concept vehicles. The later ones were spy satellites. The Discoverer series was unique in the annuals of the American space program. They used FILM cameras. The FILM had to be recovered before they were of any use. The Discovery series of probes re-entered the atmosphere and had a parachute deploy and the probe was to be recovered in mid-air by an aircraft. Later versions did land. NASA recently tried to recover a sample collection probe this way, but the balloon failed to deploy. You probably got to watch it crash into the Utah desert on CNN.

    These were very secret missions. I can find very little information on these missions. Some of the missions are still classified, hence the secrecy. The mission that crashed in Kecksburg is KH-4A 1027. This is a spy satellite that was launched from Vandenberg AFB on 4:07 pm Kecksburg time on December 9th, 1965. The records that I have found incident that is was recovered two days later due to attitude control problems. They DON'T indicate if it was recovered in mid-air or from the woods of Pennsylvania. If KH-4A 1027 crashed in Kecksburg it would have had enough time to complete ALMOST one polar order. The KH-4A is listed on the launch documents at 1500 kg.

    Now I realize that the timing is very tight, but I find it VERY INTERESTING that a spy satellite was launched on the afternoon in question. Since the launch would have been closely monitored, the exact flight path would have been known. This is how a recover team could have been on site so quickly. The acorn like description matches the expected configuration of satellite equipped with a heat shield for re-entry. In the cold war era of 1965, the military would have wanted this satellite to stay under wraps. The KH-4 series is a predecessor of the current KH-9 series.

    Mystery solved. Any questions?
     
  8. May 22, 2005 #7
    Sounds very promising. Do you have links to the pertinent data?

    My first choice when I saw the Gumbell show was the Russian thing that was launched. This would explain the alleged strange writing. I wouldn't expect a rural Pennsylvanian to recognise cyrilic lettering. However, if it was a US craft, do you have any leads on what the "hieroglyphics" were?
     
  9. May 23, 2005 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    I have passed this suggestion on to Jim Oberg. Perhaps he will be able to comment on this. If this is a good and new suggestion then Oberg will get the information out.
     
  10. May 23, 2005 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    From Oberg:

    Edit: You can find Oberg at http://www.jamesoberg.com/
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2005
  11. May 24, 2005 #10
    That is a great and comprehensive response from Oberg. I thought pauleverit might have been on to something, but it doesn't look like it, from the Oberg analysis.
     
  12. May 24, 2005 #11

    Ivan Seeking

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    So did I. It was a good effort Paul. :approve:
     
  13. Dec 9, 2005 #12

    Ivan Seeking

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    Reporter sues NASA, alleges UFO cover-up

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1209scifi-lawsuit09-ON.html
     
  14. Dec 9, 2005 #13
    Nasa didn't read Oberg.
     
  15. Dec 9, 2005 #14

    Ivan Seeking

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    Yes, I can believe that they don't have any information, but I am a little surprised that they are sticking with the Russian satellite story.
     
  16. Dec 10, 2005 #15

    Ivan Seeking

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    ...that is, esp since they don't have any information.
     
  17. Dec 10, 2005 #16
    Yes, it's interesting that they know what it was, since they can't find any information about it.
     
  18. Dec 12, 2005 #17

    Ivan Seeking

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    http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2005/12/10/editorial/editorial/daily01.txt
     
  19. Dec 12, 2005 #18

    Ivan Seeking

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    Some of Mr. Oberg's recent comments on this:

    "I wondered a long time (as a 'space expert') if it might have been
    the Soviet Venera probe reentry vehicle, and the 'tracking data'
    released by the USAF was misdirection to conceal the actual
    US possession of the vehicle. But in recent years, with access
    to Soviet tracking data, it now is clear the off-course probe
    would have been over another part of the world during the
    reported fireball. It DID enter the atmosphere earlier that same
    day, a coincidence that we all over-interpreted (in hindsight).

    But the USAF was definitely interested in retrieving falling
    satellites (I was on active duty from 1970-1978, I saw many
    of the alert messages of 'imminent decay'), while keeping any
    recoveries of them secret (UN treaty required they be returned
    to country of origin, while intelligence types didn't like that).
    My own 'reconstruction' of the event was that the imminent decay
    of the high-interest Soviet probe (it shared many key systems with
    Soviet thermonuclear warheads) sparked DoD messages to all
    locations to be aware of any 'meteorite falls' and if reported, go
    take a look, discretely. The rest is, if not good history, then
    good story.

    The 'acorn' shape, for example, does look VERY much like the
    actual probe. But it turns out, nobody seems to have reported the
    shape until years afterwards, after some investigators had showed
    recently-released photographs of the probe design in question. Now,
    if there are published accounts of the acorn shape before, say, 1985
    or so, that would be interesting!"

    James Oberg
    Spaceflight consultant to NBC News

    Again, as I do, you can follow Oberg's work at
    http://www.jamesoberg.com/

    See also: http://www.debunker.com/Kecksburg.html

    It seems to me that Oberg is the guy who would know about Russian satellites and meteors, but I'm not convinced that we have the entire story yet.

    http://www.jamesoberg.com/profile.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2005
  20. Dec 12, 2005 #19

    Ivan Seeking

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    Oberg continues:

     
  21. Jan 11, 2006 #20
    quotes:James Oberg
    Now,
    if there are published accounts of the acorn shape before, say, 1985
    or so, that would be interesting!"

    The question remains, what would they presumably have shown, since NASA wasn't supposedly even involved, the US Air Force was..... lots of garbles to go around.

    A NASA spokesman told the Associated Press that the agency was asked at the time to examine metal fragments taken from the site. That examination led to the theory that the fallen object was a Russian satellite.

    =====

    Again, more mindbogglin' 'facts'> why would there be 'fragments' of the 'acorn' to begin with?

    held by NASA and not USAF? (Blue Book says nothing found).

    there's a 'fireball' and 'fragments' > yet eyewitness accounts 'acorn with writing'.
    There seems to be 'fragments' from the 'fireball' recovered from other places?


    (who kept the Mogul fragments of Roswell? why not a record of 'disposal'-signed and dated .... the maid threw it out?> I had the chance to ask Stanton Friedmen if USAF or anyone had any 'fragments' of a Mogul baloon>there's nothing, not even an i-beam example of one known to exist.))

    ----

    The arborist now says the tree limbs damage was the result of ice/snow.
    Makes perfect sense of course- ergo no 'evidence' that something actually
    came down to that spot 'out of the sky'.
    (ground impression?)
    Geoarchaeologist J. Steven Kite > no evidence of/for " high-speed impact of a meteor or other large object".

    Haven't found any 'soldier' reports-in spite of all the reports of armed soldiers at the scene no one has announced 'I was there'? Who took over the guy's farmhouse as 'headquarters'? This is the 'elephant in the room' no one sees-?

    It's possible Stan Gordan has this info-he seems to have done the most research on this incident:

    UFO researcher's video explores several theories about 1965
    crash in Westmoreland County
    Wednesday, September 09, 1998
    By David Templeton, Post-Gazette Staff Writer
    http://www.post-gazette.com/magazine/19980908ufo1.asp
    re: Stan Gordon
    -----

    Stan Gordon's website:
    http://www.westol.com/~paufo/


    ====
    photo of Russian 'acorn':
    http://astronautix.com/craft/vena3mv4.htm

    =====
    other reports:

    Sci Fi Channel-Backed Researcher Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files
    Joe Mandak
    Associated Press Thu, Dec. 08, 2005
    Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
    http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/local/13360634.htm
    Mandak reports Dave Steitz ,NASA spokesman as relating,
    "...there's no cover-up: the "UFO" was a Russian satellite but government records documenting it have been lost...."

    "Kean said, Nicholas L. Johnson, NASA's chief scientist for orbital debris, determined the object couldn't be a Russian satellite or any other manmade object after studying the orbital paths of known satellites and other records from 1965."

    =====
    Kecksburg To Mark 40Th Anniversary Of Purported UFO Crash
    Source: The Tribune-Review - Pittsburgh,
    http://tinyurl.com/a6r64
    By Sam Kusic
    Tribune-Review
    Tuesday, December 6, 2005
    ======
    The Kecksburg UFO Incident
    Source: The Daily Courier - Pittsburgh,
    http://tinyurl.com/7e64m
    By Mark Hofmann
    Daily Courier
    Tuesday, December 6, 2005
    ==========
    Pa. Town's UFO Fest Backs Fire Department
    Source: United Press International - Washington, DC,
    http://tinyurl.com/d7bmw
    12/6/2005

    =====
    "The first rule in keeping secrets is "nothing on paper""-CIA Director Richard Helms
    =====
     
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