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Kennedy Assassination

  1. Nov 22, 2003 #1
    Did anyone else see this mind boggling show on the History Channel called The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, which was primarily an hour long monolog by a woman, Judyth Vary Baker, who claimed to have met, and fallen in love with Oswald while they were both working on a project to secretly kill Castro with a specially developed cancer virus?

    It was mind boggling because, if true, it fleshes out in amazing detail the basic conspiracy theory, while also complicating it, and if false it raises amazing questions about who this woman is, why and how she would invent such a story, or why the History Channel would invent such a story. If false, it goes so far beyond simply putting a conspiratorial spin on things, that it enters total fiction.

  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 22, 2003 #2
    I heard of it, but missed it. As soon as there is a repeat, I will say what I think.
    Until then, I think my dad bought a book that is supposed to prove that LBJ was behind it, is that what this show was about? I'm sure he'll make me read it when he's done, I'd rather just see it on TV. As to the 'Love Affair' part, are you sure that was it? I seem to remember that it is two part, the first focusing on Kennedy and the assination, the second on Oswald's lover. From my point of veiw, if there were two parts like that, then I think the second one is a little irrelevant, unless I have massively missunderstood the importance of the supposed lover in the conspiracy of Kennedy's death.
    One thing is for certain, it wasn't just one bullet, as immortalized in a Seinfeld parody of the incident involving a baseball player's loogey, Kramer, and Newman. LOL, I love Seinfeld!
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2003
  4. Nov 22, 2003 #3
    This show ends up pointing directly at LBJ at the end but it is pimarily about the fact that Oswald and this Judyth were working for a Doctor in the employ of the CIA to find a way to give people cancer to kill them in a way that looked natural rather than violent, to avoid violent repercussions. Oswald was not medically knowledgeable, he was a go between and lab assistant.
    There are about 6 installments in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" series. They seem to add one or two more each year it airs. The first one came out back in 1988. These are British productions. The one I'm talking about is just one episode, an hour long, and is called: "The Love Affair". This woman who claims to have been his lover is the one who was developing the cancer virus. She was not involved in trying to kill Kennedy, but she corroborates that Oswald was in the employ of the CIA as a low level person, and that it was the CIA who maneuvered him into the circle of another faction of people out to kill Kennedy (the LBJ/Texas oil faction) for the purported purpose of gathering information on that faction, but more likely, in truth, to serve as the fall guy.
    Two other shows recently completely demolished the magic bullet myth with fantastic computor animation based on the Zapruder film. If you seat Connely where he actually was sitting, six inches to the left of Kennedy, and rotate him slightly to his right, the bullet holes line up in a perfectly straight line from Connelly back through Kennedy back to the 6th floor corner window of the Texas School Book Depository. The reason Connelly is rotated to the right, a position which shows up as clearly as anything on the Zapruder film, is because he just heard the first shot, which as far as anyone can tell missed everything, and he is looking around to see what it was, when the second shot comes through Kennedy, into him, out his chest into his wrist where it's finally deflected to his left thigh.

    It never has to do the "magic" zig six inches to the right before entering Connelly's back. The interesting thing is that after exiting Kennedy the slug has started to tumble and actually hits Connelly sideways. That is: the slug hits him, not point first, but side first. The recovered bullet looks "pristine" at first, but if you look at it point on it is noticably flattened on one side, where it hit Connelly. It was a long slug, and had a copper jacket. Some of the lead was squeezed out the front and back of the jacket a small amount from this impact.

    The slug came out of him sideways as well, breaking a rib or two in the process which deflected it very slightly downward to his right wrist which he was holding up as he rotated. After breaking his wrist, pretty much the last straw as far as its kinetic energy went, it was deflected sideways to his left thigh.

    A guy who interviewed Connelly a fews years after the shooting asked if he could see the scar on his back, and sure enough, it was oblong.

    The whole thing was great detective work and proved that the Kennedy/Connelly bullet could not have come from anywhere but the Book Depository, and that it was required to do nothing magic to hit both men causing the wounds they actually had.

    However the direction of the fatal headshot to Kennedy wasn't cleared up by any show I saw. The trouble is that 30 odd people at Parkland Hospital in Dallas saw an enormous wound in the back of his head, while official autopsy photos from the "interfered with" autopsy back east show the back of his head intact. Neither version squares with what it looks like in the Zapruder film, which is that the whole right side of his head from above the ear to the middle of the top of his head, and from the hairline on his right temple all the way to the back of his head, appears to be blown off. There don't seem even to be any two agreed upon wounds in his head to argue about which is entrance or exit. This makes it hard to rule out grassy knoll or sewer drain shots.
  5. Nov 23, 2003 #4
    Well, I have seen several of them now, and I think the evidence against LBJ is damning.
    Here are some things I don't understand:
    -How was Connelly six inches to the left of Kennedy, because I saw his wife sitting in that position in the movie?
    -Given that when the second shot hit Kennedy he was slumped forward, and that when he was hit he rebounded back and to the left and then slumped almost completely forward again, doesn't this prove that the shot came from the front right? (It was my impression from the blurred movie that to get to the slumped forward position again he either: bounced off his wife, she pushed him away after he hit her, or it was just gravity in a way that is hard for me to visualize.)
    -If the former is so, then how did Connelly get hit so many times too, the bullet wouldn't come from the right direction?
    -And I still don't get how one gets hit in the ribs from the general right side direction and then gets hit in the right wrist and then in the left thigh. Unless I'm confused, that seems like it would take three bullets or one magic loogey that makes an acute turn at each impact. As I'm no doctor, I don't know that bullets can't do that, I'd just be surprised if they could.
    -Why does it matter what the eye witnesses say when we have a movie? Or is there a question about the movie's validity?
  6. Nov 23, 2003 #5
    Obviously I mean Connelly was in front of Kennedy, but not directly in front of him, rather his seat was six inches to the left or in board side of Kennedy.
    The movement of Kennedy's body to the back happens at least half a second after the bullet has already gone through his head. Some people try to explain this in terms of physics. In my opinion it is a neurological phenomenon first and foremost: the shock to his brain caused a sudden tensing of every muscle in his body in a classic "tonic" posture, that is: an arching of the back. It really says nothing about the direction of the bullet. The fact he ends up falling to the left after the spasm subsides is a matter of weight.
    Connelly only got hit once. I explained the path of the bullet in detail.
    The importance of the eyewitnesses is more a matter of what they heard. There are about 50 people who said they heard gunfire from the grassy knoll, rather than from the direction of the School Depository. If there was a shot from the grassy knoll it means there was more than one person shooting at the car, which would naturally lead people to conclude there was a coordinated effort to kill Kennedy: a conspiracy. This could have been an accoustic phenomenon, though, and I imagine it has been tested but I haven't happened to see anything about it.
  7. Nov 25, 2003 #6
    The electrical effect on muscles caused by a bullet in the brain never occured to me.
    I do not understand the Connelly thing still, so is this right?: He was hit with a single bullet in the ribs, that changed direction and hit his wrist, and changed direction again and hit his thigh.
    If this is true, how can a bullet move like that? Is this a reasonable/likely event, or just something bizarre that happened in the worst murder? (I say worst not only because of Kennedy's importance, but also, if the bullet had did something more normal to Connelly, there'd be fewer conspiracy theories for sure).
  8. Nov 25, 2003 #7
    The bullet didn't do anything special. It just kept trying to go forward in a straight line. However when it hit his front ribs coming out of him it ricoched off them down slightly to his wrist and then ricoched off his wrist to the left. Look at it this way: the bullet just tried to keep moving forward in a straight line, but then a couple of ribs got into its path, knocking it off course. Then as it tried to continue in a straight line on the new course a wrist got in its path knocking it off course again.
  9. Nov 27, 2003 #8
    Well, I know that, but it seems like that is a lot of bouncing for a bullet. However, as I do not have the video on me, I might be overestimating the relative positions of all those body parts, if it hits only a glancing blow to each, then I guess that isn't so weird.
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