Kerry picked Edwards .

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  • #76
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Njorl said:
Let me just ask.

Has any child ever been afflicted with cerebral palsy due to a health care provider's avoidable error? Is it conceivable that John Edwards could have represented such children? The rest of you seem to be saying that, "In theory such an injury could occur, but we know John Edwards didn't represent such people."

Njorl

Edwards claims were that the doctor did not do the C section soon enough, and therefore it was his fault that the baby had CP. There is NO evidence to back this up, and as we know the burden of proof lies on the PLAINTIFF.
In this case, both edwards, and his 42nd (if I'm remembering that number right) expert witness are both scum who look to abuse the system.

The point is a moral one. Edwards is NOT the kind of person I want leading my country and/or healthcare system and/or future profession.
 
  • #77
loseyourname
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Njorl said:
Let me just ask.

Has any child ever been afflicted with cerebral palsy due to a health care provider's avoidable error? Is it conceivable that John Edwards could have represented such children? The rest of you seem to be saying that, "In theory such an injury could occur, but we know John Edwards didn't represent such people."

Njorl
No, what we're saying is that whether or not Edwards won a couple of legitimate cases (heck, even if most of them were legitimate), there is no doubt that he put doctors out of business that did nothing wrong, and that he made countless millions of dollars doing it.
 
  • #78
Njorl
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phatmonky said:
http://www.cnsnews.com/Culture/archive/200402/CUL20040202a.html [Broken]
Well according to him he didn't just not go far enough:



Which means he spent the time to investigate the case, and then ignored the facts.
That is nonsense. When Edwards was practicing it was still accepted that 10-15% of palsy cases were caused by perinatal asphyxia. It was also assumed that many of those cases were avoidable.

Even using the most conservative estimates of the most modern data, you should expect 1 or 2 justified suits for cerebral palsy in N. Carolina per year. You would also expect to see more than this in which reasonable people disagree as to the justice of the situation. Given the accepted science of Edwards' day, you would expect at least 5 times this number of cases - 5 to 10 justified cases, per year, and more cases that experts would reasonably disagree upon. Edwards won fewer than 2 palsy cases per year early in his career, and about 3 per year later. He was aknowledged as the best attorney in the state for this kind of case. If you did have a legitimate case, why on Earth would you go to anyone else. Statistically, all of this is perfectly reasonble. If you want to discredit him, the statistics are just not there. You will have to do it with specifics.

Do you really find it unreasonable that the best tort lawyer in North Carolina, one of the 8 best in the country, who specialized in cerebral palsy malpractice cases, should win 2 or 3 of those cases per year?


Njorl
 
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  • #79
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One fact that gets lost in this thread is that WE pay for this litigation. The doctors continue to work and make their money. No, WE pay for the damages. So every time you write a check for your health insurance (or wonder why your salary isn't as high as it could be), you can thank John Edwards.
 
  • #80
Njorl
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loseyourname said:
No, what we're saying is that whether or not Edwards won a couple of legitimate cases (heck, even if most of them were legitimate), there is no doubt that he put doctors out of business that did nothing wrong, and that he made countless millions of dollars doing it.
He made about 6-7 million a year in his best years, winning about 8 cases a year. That is not uncounted millions. Only about 1/4 of those were palsy cases. Not all of the others were medical malpractice.

Please list the name of a Dr. that Edwards put out of business.

For Edwards to do that, he would have to hit a doctor at least 3 times with an unjustified suit. With just 2 palsy cases per year I find it unlikely. I haven't seen any reason to believe any of his cases were not justified. Just a lot of hand-wringing.

Njorl
 
  • #81
Njorl
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phatmonky said:
Edwards claims were that the doctor did not do the C section soon enough, and therefore it was his fault that the baby had CP. There is NO evidence to back this up, and as we know the burden of proof lies on the PLAINTIFF.
In this case, both edwards, and his 42nd (if I'm remembering that number right) expert witness are both scum who look to abuse the system.

The point is a moral one. Edwards is NOT the kind of person I want leading my country and/or healthcare system and/or future profession.
What case? Please provide some reference. I did not notice one in the two links I followed up.

Njorl
 
  • #82
Njorl
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JohnDubYa said:
One fact that gets lost in this thread is that WE pay for this litigation. The doctors continue to work and make their money. No, WE pay for the damages. So every time you write a check for your health insurance (or wonder why your salary isn't as high as it could be), you can thank John Edwards.
None of this affects health insurance, it affects malpractice insurance. Of every $100.00 dollars you spend for health care, you spend fifty-six cents (cents, not dollars) on malpractice insurance. I can afford it.

Njorl
 
  • #83
member 5645
Njorl said:
What case? Please provide some reference. I did not notice one in the two links I followed up.

Njorl

First, there is no doubt of what the 'baby brain damage' cases were arguing, right?? I'll put that link I guess, but this far it seems you are aware of Edwards original accusation, RIGHT??

Secondly, when I said case, I didn't mean legal case - but that is an interesting double meaning, and one I will address later. I just need to pull the link, but am leaving work now. Let me know if you needed that link explaining what the cases were about too - I assume you already know though
 
  • #84
loseyourname
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Njorl said:
He made about 6-7 million a year in his best years, winning about 8 cases a year. That is not uncounted millions. Only about 1/4 of those were palsy cases. Not all of the others were medical malpractice.

Please list the name of a Dr. that Edwards put out of business.

For Edwards to do that, he would have to hit a doctor at least 3 times with an unjustified suit. With just 2 palsy cases per year I find it unlikely. I haven't seen any reason to believe any of his cases were not justified. Just a lot of hand-wringing.

Njorl
I didn't mean to imply that Edwards directly took the license of any doctor. What he did is greatly raise malpractice insurance premiums, which makes it very difficult for a doctor-owned practice to get off the ground. Raise the expenses to the point where they can no longer afford to own a practice, and you have put them out of business. I'm not trying to say that Edwards alone is responsible for this, but the fact remains that he (along with a lot of other lawyers) forced insurance companies to pay huge awards when it was not warranted. It is highly doubtful that even half of the doctors filed against were in fact responsible for the injuries suffered (in particular with the cerebral palsy cases). Obviously, hindsight plays a factor here, and perhaps you are right. Perhaps Edwards honestly believed that he was doing the right thing, despite the fact that it is now clear he was not. But just by looking at some of the transcipts of his cases (selected, admittedly, by conservative websites), he comes across as a man appealing to emotion, far more concerned with winning the case than with finding the truth, and thereby serving the cause of justice, which I'm pretty sure is what a lawyer is supposed to do.
 
  • #85
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RE: "None of this affects health insurance, it affects malpractice insurance."

You see no connection between the two?
 
  • #86
Njorl
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JohnDubYa said:
RE: "None of this affects health insurance, it affects malpractice insurance."

You see no connection between the two?
There is the concept of the second order effect of defensive medicine; Doctors order more tests to prevent lawsuits.

First, defensive medicine is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm sure some of it is waste, but not all, not even most.

Second, it is not logical, economically speaking, that defensive medicine could have such great costs when malpractice premiums are at 0.56% of medical costs. Money is only spent on defensive medicine to the extent that it is marginally more profitable than spending it on malpractice premiums.

Njorl
 
  • #87
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There is the concept of the second order effect of defensive medicine; Doctors order more tests to prevent lawsuits.
And they also charge more to pay for their higher malpractice rates, right?
 
  • #88
adrenaline
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JohnDubYa said:
And they also charge more to pay for their higher malpractice rates, right?

No, not allowed to. Remember, third party payers, whether it is medicare, Hmos, medicaid etc. fix the prices for a doctor's services : physical exam= x amount, , ekg= x amount, , urinalysis, skin biopsey etc. The prices cannot be inflated to cover overhead costs such as malpractice ins.premiums, etc. The most a doc can do is try to see more patients which isn't the best option for either the doctor or the patient. There are quite a few docs pushing for liability surcharges in place of tort reform but some in the AMA argue that it would look as if docs are taking advantage of the medical malpractice insurance crisis and using it to raise their fees.
 
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  • #89
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No, not allowed to. Remember, third party payers, whether it is medicare, Hmos, medicaid etc. fix the prices for a doctor's services :
And what is that price, and is subject to change?

I am not talking about a case where a single doctor increases his rates to overcome a loss in court. I am talking about the overall cost of health care. All of a sudden, the following year its physical exam = X + dX.
 

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