Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Kicking Below The Belt

  1. Aug 5, 2006 #1
    So the young one and I are watching King of the Hill and it is the episode where Bobby took a women's self defense course and learned to kick an attacker in the groin to defend himself. He starts to go around kicking everyone until his dad tells him not to and.....well none of this matters. Where I am going with this is that if I were to be atacked, my reflex is to hit the guy in the face or to bite him, not the groin. If that did not work, kicking near the bottom of the zipper would be my second choice.

    This was actually taught to me by my stepfather when I was in 1st grade. My friends older brother (he was in 3rd grade) used to walk behind us home and one day he was making fun of his sister and I stood up for her. He ended up hitting me in the face with his lunchbox (back in the day when lunchboxes were metal) and gave me a black eye. That night my stepdad taught me the knee lift and the next time he picked on us - I took care of him.

    As men though, is this acceptable fighting? If another guy were to attack or even just start a fight with you, is it socially okay for men to "stoop this low"?


    _____________
    article submission | isulong seoph
    article directory | ezine
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 5, 2006 #2

    Gokul43201

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    :rofl:

    Not unless you're outnumbered. Then, anything goes!
     
  4. Aug 6, 2006 #3
    If the guy is the same size as you then no it isn't OK.

    If the guy is the same size as you and is about to kill you then you do whatever the hell you want to get out of that situation.

    Then of course if the person is a lot bigger than you or you are just outnumbered then anything goes...however if you are outnumbered you will most likely lose anyway and doing something like that will probably screw you up even more.
     
  5. Aug 6, 2006 #4

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Yes, I think it depends on the situation. There are times, such as when your life is in jeopardy, that anything goes.

    Also, I think one of the most effective defensive moves that one can learn is the art of breaking a knee with a low kick. It doesn't leave you highly vulnerable [as can a relatively high kick to the groin] and it is relatively easily learned. Also, you don't have to be in good shape to pull it off.

    In fact, I found that a simple foot sweep can put down the best of them. That gives you time to run. :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  6. Aug 6, 2006 #5

    Astronuc

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    I would agree with Ivan - taking out a knee is very effective, but one has to be quick and on target. If the aggressor has had training, and they are able to block one's kick, then one needs a followup punch or kick to the groin.

    I prefer not to fight, but there are times when one has no alternative.
     
  7. Aug 6, 2006 #6
    In a fight, to point is to get the other guy to stop hiting you as fast as possible...whatever that may take.
    That being said, hitting or kicking someone in the groin is not a good tactic against an experienced fighter. You actually have to put yourself in a vulnerable position to hit/kick him there. There are alot of other, more efficient ways in which you can cause him more then enough pain to back off.

    So in conclusion, I don't think it's morally wrong, but I'd look down on people doing it anyway because it's not a smart thing to do.
     
  8. Aug 6, 2006 #7
    A flat hand to the windpipe without warning, if you hit just the right spot they'll be rolling on the ground for ten minutes, don't over do it though or you'll kill someone. Best method of fighting though in all reality is diplomacy, don't get involved in the first place or calm the situation, if that's not possible then try and end it as soon as possible, if the guy/s bigger than you it's highly likely you can outrun him/them over short distances. Any strike to pressure points should quickly disarm a situation, anyone who's been kicked in a pressure point whilst doing a martial art will know just how painful it is. I think possibly the best style against fighters is probably something that means you avoid contact alltogether with the opponent :smile:

    If clearly over matched and in real trouble, as Homer once said "cry like a girl and then when he turns his face away in disgust, hit him in the familly jewels" Something like that :smile:
     
  9. Aug 6, 2006 #8

    Alkatran

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    If this is some random guy on the street, do whatever you have to. Just don't kick a kid in the balls when you have to go back to school the next day. The move probably won't work twice.
     
  10. Aug 6, 2006 #9

    Moonbear

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I have my doubts about using a kick to the groin in self defense. Especially if a guy is attacking a woman, I'd think he'd expect her to try that and would be quick and ready to block it.

    An advantage to Ivan's approach of going for the knees, or feet/ankles to knock them off-balance, is you can accomplish either of those whether you're facing your attacker or if they've grabbed you from behind, and if you miss your mark, you're still going to give a heck of a bruise to the shin, unlike attempting a kick to the groin, where if blocked, will do nothing as you hit soft tissue of the thigh. Most men have learned to block a kick to the groin by the time they've passed puberty (it's the unexpected accidents that get them after that, not the planned kicks in fights). Of course, if you're in a life-or-death struggle with an attacker, try anything, just don't count on any one move being sufficient to take him down and escape.
     
  11. Aug 6, 2006 #10
    When you say kicking to the knee-cap:
    Are you using toes heel or bottom of your foot.

    Are you coming in straight+down, or side-kick roundhouse style.

    I'm just trying to think about it breaking, and the most I see happening is them dislocating it. I feel itd be hard to shatter if youre not wearing steel toed boots.

    But I have found in most fights a quck snap kick to the side of the knee works wonders. It doesnt break anything but buckles their leg throwin them off balance.
     
  12. Aug 6, 2006 #11

    Moonbear

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    When talking defense, I don't think it matters if you actually break the kneecap, or just dislocate it, or snap the ligaments in the knee; any way you do it, they're not going to be running after you very fast when you make your escape, which is the most important thing to accomplish.
     
  13. Aug 6, 2006 #12

    Astronuc

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    One could do a front kick hitting the knee with the ball of the foot or heel, or front roundhouse with the top side (navicular) which is the bone just in front of the tibia.

    Kicking from the side at the joint can cause a lot of pain and ligament damage.

    Also, a cross blow to the front of the chin will knock someone out, but it has to be quick and on target.
     
  14. Aug 6, 2006 #13
    Take some martial arts classes. Those should get your heart in shape so you can run away fast when you get in a fight.
     
  15. Aug 6, 2006 #14

    JasonRox

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member

    Last time I heard about a fight where a guy hit the other in the groin, the victim of the groin hit destroyed the other guy brutally. Worse than it would have been if he had not done that.

    I'd recommend not doing it in all cases, especially if you know you are going to lose.
     
  16. Aug 6, 2006 #15

    JasonRox

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member

    To the guys who are talking hitting the knees, you must be dreaming.

    I've never been in a real fight but I have play fighted, even at my current age, and some people go for the legs first and they never come close. Sure if successful it's great, but I think the chance of that happening is really low unless you are fighting someone really slow, which in that case running without hitting will do.

    If I had to choose, I would say try to land one shot. I'm not as big as I used to be right now so it might not hurt so much now, but before I had a good shot. I found that if you play fighted with boxing gloves you can punch through the guard they put up because you have so much more strength than everyone else.

    Also, being bigger avoids other things like fights. Guys feel a lot more intimidated and probably scared. I did some stupid stuff at clubs that should have got me into a fight, but didn't because I was probably bigger than the other guy (I don't remember each case). I wasn't even that big either or maybe it's cause I looked like a martial artists. :)

    Enough about my old days. :(

    Note: I used to get out of trouble a lot because of my friends too. They were all pretty big fighters. I wouldn't dare touch them.
     
  17. Aug 6, 2006 #16

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    that's where that part about "learning the art" comes in. Sure, if you've never trained you probably won't pull it off.

    A foot sweep is the first move learned in Judo; it comes right after "how to fall down". :wink:
     
  18. Aug 6, 2006 #17
    I disagree to a certain extent with the fact that if you are big it will prevent others from wanting to fight you.

    From what I've seen if there is a group of **** stirrers then they will be attracted to the big guy by himself instead of the weedy guy.
    I know that this sometimes isn't the case, but a lot of the time the group will want to go for the big guy because that allows them to boast and they will each say later on that they beat up a big guy by themselves.
     
  19. Aug 7, 2006 #18

    FredGarvin

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Ahhh boy.

    First to the OP: The groin shot is just like any other technique. It has it's effects and its consequences. If you are going to tell your kid about this, I hope that you will also explain the consequences of his actions if he does use it. Personally, I wouldn't recommend that he use it unless he absolutely had to and then its best used as a tactic to get enogh time to get the heck out of the area and out of danger. If this is some bully at school or something along those lines, he'll probably make things a lot worse for himself the next time around. He'll get the reputation of a cheap shot artist and they'll be looking for it the next time around with more than just the bully coming at him. If it were my son and there were no other options, I'd rather have him deck the other kid. That would send a bigger message to the bully and they bully's buddies.

    To everyone else recommending knee techniques: Are you guys crazy? Taking out someone's knee? The knee techniques are a fable. There are three huge things are wrong with even bringing this up:

    1) 99% of the people out there would never pull it off. In the heat of things, the knee is a small, moving target. You aint gonna get a good hit on it. I spar on average of 3 times a week. I don't think I could pull it off without wearing the other person down quite a bit before hand. And if I get them to that point, there's no point in going for the knee.

    2) If one did actually do damage, you are talking about, probably, a life altering injury to the assailant. Guess who is going to get thrown in jail or sued, or both. Just because someone is harassed by a bully, or gets into a bar fight or whatever, the thought of doing this should not enter your mind. That amount of force is way over the top. Your response to a situation has to be on the same level as the assailant. Can you imagine sitting in a courtroom with the person telling a judge that "yeah. I was drunk and started a fight. But now, thanks to this guy, I have lost my ability to make a living."? Telling a young person to do a technique like that is not a responsible move. They don't have the ability to make the distinctions between what is appropriate. They know that from their teachers/parents. I would feel absolutely horrible if one of the kids from my dojo had to get in trouble because of something like this because it was something we showed them, so it must have been ok to use.

    3)Like I already said, this is a very low percentage technique in most cases. If someone were in the life threatening situation that would dictate its use, it's probably not going to be the right thing to do. I cringe at most self defense instructors when they show off a technique like this in a "real world situation." Most of the time, trying to do a technique like that will get you injured or killed.
     
  20. Aug 7, 2006 #19
    There's a quote that goes: "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal". Not really, but he leveled the playing field a little.

    For kids, a good shot to the pills is the same but the wee one will have to watch his back at school more.

    EVERY man should know how to defend himself and his family, regardless. Maybe not fight, but defend at all costs. Who among you would stand idly by and watch someone do harm to a member of your family because he didn't want to "hurt" someone?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  21. Aug 7, 2006 #20

    Astronuc

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    With regard to 'kicking the knee' - I've seen it done, but 'one has to be quick and on target'. The particular case was a kick to the inside just above the knee, which disabled the leg. Both people were experienced fighters however.


    It's best to avoid situations where one might be attacked, or otherwise get into a fight. :rolleyes:
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Kicking Below The Belt
  1. Kicked out (Replies: 13)

  2. Kicking the bucket (Replies: 23)

  3. Sauna Belt (Replies: 1)

  4. Photon Belt? (Replies: 4)

Loading...