Killing all the lions and tigers...

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  • #126
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See #68
And as for Apex predators being unimportant -
Primary or apex predators can actually benefit prey populations by suppressing smaller predators, and failure to consider this mechanism has triggered collapses of entire ecosystems.

Cascading negative effects of surging mesopredator populations have been documented for birds, sea turtles, lizards, rodents, marsupials, rabbits, fish, scallops, insects and ungulates.

The economic cost of controlling mesopredators may be very high, and sometimes could be accomplished more effectively at less cost by returning apex predators to the ecosystem.

Human intervention cannot easily replace the role of apex predators, in part because the constant fear of predation alters not only populations but behavior of mesopredators.

Large predators are usually carnivores, but mesopredators are often omnivores and can cause significant plant and crop damage.

The effects of exploding mesopredator populations can be found in oceans, rivers, forests and grasslands around the world.

Reversing and preventing mesopredator release is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive as the world's top predators continue to edge toward obliteration.

"These problems resist simple solutions," Ripple said. "I've read that when Gen. George Armstrong Custer came into the Black Hills in 1874, he noticed a scarcity of coyotes and the abundance of wolves. Now the wolves are gone in many places and coyotes are killing thousands of sheep all over the West."

"We are just barely beginning to appreciate the impact of losing our top predators," he said.
http://www.livescience.com/9716-loss-top-predators-causing-ecosystems-collapse.html
As for killing all whales, I presume you have some literature to back up your claims? I would be very interested.
 
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  • #127
Drakkith
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I don't think this is the official reasoning behind the death penalty. It's called a "penalty" for a reason. It's intended as a punishment, and I believe the origins of it here in the US are from Old Testament Justice: an eye for an eye, etc.
I'm not arguing the 'intended' purpose of capital punishment. I'm only answering the question:
"how is executing a human being - who may be innocent - enhancing anybody's life?"
 
  • #128
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In addition, their execution serves to discourage others from performing certain crimes.
do you live in a society that is so unstable that the revocation of the death penalty would lead to an increase in murder?

Are there people walking around your streets thinking "if only there as no death penalty! this damn law is discouraging me from murder!"

seriously?


why is every argument for the death penalty the same cliche?

either murder is right or wrong. It should not matter who does the murdering.
 
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  • #129
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I'm not arguing the 'intended' purpose of capital punishment. I'm only answering the question:
"how is executing a human being - who may be innocent - enhancing anybody's life?"
No, you weren't merely answering the question. Your post was phrased as an explanation of the motivation behind execution:
I believe the basic idea is pretty simple. You execute criminals so that they no longer pose a danger to others. In addition, their execution serves to discourage others from performing certain crimes.
"You execute criminals so that..." describes a motivation, an intended purpose.
 
  • #130
Drakkith
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Make up your mind!
I'm not sure why you think I haven't made up my mind. The basic idea of how capital punishment enhances peoples lives is simple. What's complicated is determining how effective it is.

Who is being deterred?
No idea. I'm not arguing for or against capital punishment, I merely pointed out the flaw in judging its effectiveness by going off of murder rates by country.

do you live in a society that is so unstable that the revocation of the death penalty would lead to an increase in murder?
Haven't a clue!

No, you weren't merely answering the question. Your post was phrased as an explanation of the motivation behind execution:
Then I phrased it poorly.
 
  • #131
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Why don't we kill all the animals that
1. can have humans as food
2. top of the food chain
3. eats other animals that can be food for humans
4. no apparent use to humans.

Lions and tigers come in this category. They do not seem to have any particular use to the humans. We could keep a few in order not to get them extinct; other than that, we don't need them. Lions and tigers come in the top of the food chain, so it should not have much impact on the eco system. Humans can eat pretty much all types of food a lion or tiger eats (other than humans). This can help solving a part of food scarcity for humans. What is incorrect in this logic, in an eco system point of view (not the morality part)
They're not even a remote competition for us, so why would you do need or want to do that? You're a bit of a sociopath are you not?
 
  • #132
Bandersnatch
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This thread is a bit of a train wreck, is it not?
 
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  • #133
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bit of a train wreck
It had potential ---
Face it, we're all just bored.
OK, and which one of those implies that morality should not apply to animals?
Also, I personally only accept 1, 3 and 4 as bases of my personal morality.
--- but, no longer.
 
  • #134
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This thread is a bit of a train wreck, is it not?
That makes me wonder if morality should be applied to machines.
I really feel bad when I have to put a car down when it has passed her prime of life and looses her sense of purpose.
How embarrassing it must have been for her - like even leaking from orifices that who new existed.
The last poor thing was in such bad shape, even the professional disposal guy said I waited just about too long, but she will be out of her misery before too long and painlessly.
 
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  • #135
Bandersnatch
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This in turn makes me wonder if morality should be applied to threads.

What if caters - our resident big cat enthusiast - reads this thread and gets a heart attack?
 
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  • #136
Dale
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Don't worry. The thread didn't feel any pain.
 
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  • #137
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This thread is a bit of a train wreck, is it not?
It's being cleaned up, it helps when people hit the "report" button. Maybe I should give infractions to people that respond to a post that should be reported? :devil:

Edit: I see Dale killed it, better still.
 
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