Killinig animals

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  • #1
wolram
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Like the rhino just for the aphrodisiac from its horn is unforgivable, and it most
likely doesn't work any way, where do people get these ideas?
 

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  • #2
arildno
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Because the horn of the rhino "looks like" a phallus.

I would recommend you to read James A. Frazer's classic "The Golden Bough", in which he performs a vast and thorough investigation into among other things, the ideas of "sympathetic magic".
Belief in "Sympathetic magic" seems to be an almost universally, cross-culturally present; essentially, it involves simplistic causation schemes like "Like begets like", "Opposites cancel" and so on.
 
  • #3
wolram
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But are people so simple?
 
  • #4
arildno
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wolram said:
But are people so simple?
Why do you think we had to wait for a truly exceptional genius like Isaac Newton to come around to tell us basic stuff about how the world appears to work?
 
  • #5
Astronuc
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wolram said:
But are people so simple?
Apparently too many people are that simple. Many adults still maintain 'magical thinking' or belief in the supernatural.

I consider knowledge about astronomy, cosmology, nuclear physics, particle physics, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, . . . . basically many aspects of mathematics and science are very basic or fundamental to me. BUT, the vast majority of humanity is ignorant to this knowledge.

A friend was very recently accosted in a store in a rural area of the US. He explained that his approach to life was more scientific than religious, and he was told that "science was an abomination against God". :rolleyes:
 
  • #6
arildno
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Magical thinking is a nice, fuzzy mode of reflection which seems to imbue the world with beautiful and deep "meanings". That is, I think the basic reason why "people" tend to believe in such stuff, is that it makes them feel happier about themselves and their place in the world.

In a way, magical thinking is a sort of pre-philosophical existentialism.
 
  • #7
wolram
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arildno said:
Magical thinking is a nice, fuzzy mode of reflection which seems to imbue the world with beautiful and deep "meanings". That is, I think the basic reason why "people" tend to believe in such stuff, is that it makes them feel happier about themselves and their place in the world.

In a way, magical thinking is a sort of pre-philosophical existentialism.

I would be the first to think escapism, but killing an animal for some whim is
repellant, humanity should be ashamed.
 
  • #8
arildno
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wolram said:
I would be the first to think escapism, but killing an animal for some whim is
repellant, humanity should be ashamed.
I perfectly agree with you; I was merely musing over what might be the basic reason behind this nonsense.
 
  • #9
Astronuc
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Killing an animal for sport or recreation or amusement is repugnant, but there are such people.

I have no problem with people hunting herbivorous animals for food, but to kill a magnificent creature like an elephant, rhinoceros, lion, tiger or any other of the big cats for sport is simply evil. :mad:
 
  • #10
arildno
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Whale tastes very good..





Runs and hides..
 
  • #11
Astronuc
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arildno said:
Whale tastes very good..

Runs and hides..
:surprised That's like eating family.
 
  • #12
Daminc
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but to kill a magnificent creature like an elephant, rhinoceros, lion, tiger or any other of the big cats for sport is simply evil.
I agree, there isn't any justification for it.

Many adults still maintain 'magical thinking' or belief in the supernatural.
I've always classed 'magic' as an unknown science. When the science becomes know it is no longer 'magical'.

p.s. original men of science used to be called alchemists.
 
  • #13
arildno
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Newton was quite appropriately called "The Last Sorcerer" by a biographer.
His main corpus of work where in the occult area, rather than in natural science and math.

("The last Alchemist" would have been more accurate,IMO, but "sorcerer" is cooler and more catchy)
 
  • #14
wolram
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Astronuc said:
Apparently too many people are that simple. Many adults still maintain 'magical thinking' or belief in the supernatural.

I consider knowledge about astronomy, cosmology, nuclear physics, particle physics, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, . . . . basically many aspects of mathematics and science are very basic or fundamental to me. BUT, the vast majority of humanity is ignorant to this knowledge.

A friend was very recently accosted in a store in a rural area of the US. He explained that his approach to life was more scientific than religious, and he was told that "science was an abomination against God". :rolleyes:


:yuck: :yuck: and more :yuck: , i pity that part of humanity, i can only hope
that the aztex ritual of bleeding nuts is past,and killing animals for what, can be ended now.
 
  • #15
wolram
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My final thought is, do these aphrodisiacs work?
 
  • #16
wolram
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arildno said:
Whale tastes very good..





Runs and hides..

And so you should, you, you, you, some thing not nice.
 
  • #17
Lisa!
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Mr. wolram said:
And so you should, you, you, you, some thing not nice.
Are you a vegetarian, Sir?
 
  • #18
Astronuc
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wolram said:
My final thought is, do these aphrodisiacs work?
NO, they don't. If they did, one could consume similar material by eating one's fingernails. Rhinoceros horn is made of http://www.yesmag.bc.ca/Questions/rhino.html [Broken]

This is as stupid as consuming the contents of bear gall bladders or other animal parts.

It's bad enough humans are violent to one another, but leave innocent animals out of it. :mad:

See also the CITES website
 
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  • #19
wolram
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Lisa! said:
Are you a vegetarian, Sir?

No Lisa,your highness, i eat meat, but i wouldn't kill an animal for some mistaken pleasure.
 
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  • #20
stoned
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Astronuc said:
It's bad enough humans are violent to one another, but leave innocent animals out of it. :mad:

See also the CITES website

you mean we should leave all animals in peace, not only those most pretty and magnificent.
 
  • #21
Smasherman
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I agree that such acts are deplorable. Then again, I don't stop at beautiful animals in my beliefs.

As to magic, I basically agree with Daminc.
 
  • #22
wolram
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stoned said:
you mean we should leave all animals in peace, not only those most pretty and magnificent.

kill for food, not pleasure, anyone who wants to get horny can find some other way,
 
  • #23
kaos
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Rhinoceros horn , bears paw and bile, tiger penis , sharks fin,monkey brains....... all this are believed to be medicinal by chinese medicine, however i don't buy that ancient BS.

Still quite a lot of people use believe in it and these items can fetch quite a price.
 
  • #24
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wolram said:
Like the rhino just for the aphrodisiac from its horn is unforgivable, and it most
likely doesn't work any way, where do people get these ideas?

I'll get nailed to a cupboard for saying this but, my question is "why not?"

Frankly I don't care about that monstrosity that rolls in mud and eats grass all day that much, and if an enormous population of people like doing something that's not hurting other people, I'd love to have them do that.
 
  • #25
Entropy
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I consider knowledge about astronomy, cosmology, nuclear physics, particle physics, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, . . . . basically many aspects of mathematics and science are very basic or fundamental to me. BUT, the vast majority of humanity is ignorant to this knowledge.

Have you ever been called stupid for being knowledgeable in those areas? My sister calls me an idiot because I have an interest in science. She argues that I'm an idiot for studying and not doing fun things like partying.

Anyway, I see it was a wasteful, but nothing more. It's just an animal.
 
  • #26
Ivan Seeking
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Many of the opinions expressed here seem incredibly biased. As for beliefs in such things as rhino horns, there are other similar examples that are well founded. For example, the medicinal value of many plants has long been known to various primitive cultures. In many ways, science is only beginning to catch up. So how exactly does the average person tell the difference between ancient myths, and ancient knowledge?

As for supernatural beliefs, many adults believe strange things due to personal experience. This subtle detail is usually left out because it blows the entire argument favored by debunkers.

Finally, as already noted, what is thought to be magic or supernatural today may be in physics books in twenty years.
 
  • #27
wolram
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Mk said:
I'll get nailed to a cupboard for saying this but, my question is "why not?"

Frankly I don't care about that monstrosity that rolls in mud and eats grass all day that much, and if an enormous population of people like doing something that's not hurting other people, I'd love to have them do that.

:grumpy: So only human life has value to you? :grumpy:
 
  • #28
wolram
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Entropy said:
Have you ever been called stupid for being knowledgeable in those areas? My sister calls me an idiot because I have an interest in science. She argues that I'm an idiot for studying and not doing fun things like partying.

Anyway, I see it was a wasteful, but nothing more. It's just an animal.

I wonder if there are still cannibals about, they wouldn't waste much I'm sure
and you are just an animal.
:biggrin:
 
  • #29
loseyourname
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wolram said:
I would be the first to think escapism, but killing an animal for some whim is repellant, humanity should be ashamed.

Come on, man, Roman cults used to castrate themselves and throw their severed penises onto the ground to encourage good harvests (I learned this from The Golden Bough, by the way). Believing that a rhino's horn is an aphrodisiac is nothing. Many humans historically have sacrificed other humans for far lesser reasons. At least in Aztec society, the people being sacrified were honored. In certain athletic competitions, it was the captain of the winning team that won the honor of being beheaded. In certain African tribes, only the king is considered exalted enough to be worthy of a sacrificial death.
 
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  • #30
wolram
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loseyourname said:
Come on, man, Roman cults used to castrate themselves and throw their severed penises onto the ground to encourage good harvests (I learned this from The Golden Bough, by the way). Believing that a rhino's horn is an aphrodisiac is nothing. Many humans historically have sacrificed other humans for far lesser reasons. At least in Aztec society, the people being sacrified were honored. In certain athletic competitions, it was the captain of the winning team that won the honor of being beheaded. In certain African tribes, only the king is considered exalted enough to be worthy of a sacrificial death.

This only re enforces the savagery of human kind, i have read about the Aztecs
and their sacrifices ,and the barbarity of the romans and more.
Is it to much to ask that a species of animal is not wiped out in the mistaken
belief that some twit can get a hard on.
 
  • #31
arildno
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wolram said:
And so you should, you, you, you, some thing not nice.
Whale-eater? (Okay, it wouldn't be difficult to assign unnicer labels on me)

Just in defence, the "vågehval", the whale species hunted by Icelanders and Norwegians today, is very numerous, and in no danger of being exterminated.
 
  • #32
wolram
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Where as the arildno raptor is fast dieing out.
 
  • #33
stoned
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arildno said:
Whale-eater? (Okay, it wouldn't be difficult to assign unnicer labels on me)

Just in defence, the "vågehval", the whale species hunted by Icelanders and Norwegians today, is very numerous, and in no danger of being exterminated.

I'm not surprised by this statement, we heard the the same thing about many animals until is to late.
 
  • #34
kaos
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Ivan Seeking said:
Many of the opinions expressed here seem incredibly biased. As for beliefs in such things as rhino horns, there are other similar examples that are well founded. For example, the medicinal value of many plants has long been known to various primitive cultures. In many ways, science is only beginning to catch up. So how exactly does the average person tell the difference between ancient myths, and ancient knowledge?

As for supernatural beliefs, many adults believe strange things due to personal experience. This subtle detail is usually left out because it blows the entire argument favored by debunkers.

Finally, as already noted, what is thought to be magic or supernatural today may be in physics books in twenty years.

Yes, but we cannot just kill these animals to the extent that they are threatened with extinction. Many of the animals that i have mentioned are endangered because of these unconfirmed benefits. Wether or not these beliefs are true does not justify causing their extinction.
 
  • #35
Ivan Seeking
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kaos said:
Yes, but we cannot just kill these animals to the extent that they are threatened with extinction. Many of the animals that i have mentioned are endangered because of these unconfirmed benefits. Wether or not these beliefs are true does not justify causing their extinction.

I completely agree.
 

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