Launch of space shuttle

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  • #1
stoned
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will space shuttle blow up again ? would be much better idea to send shuttle into the space on 4th of july, we have never enough of fireworks and stuff exploding.
 
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  • #2
yourdadonapogostick
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if it did, NASA would have to finally just give up. it's dying anyway, but htis would expedite the process.

stoned said:
would be much better idea to send shuttle into the space on 4th of july, but we have never enough of fireworks.
that is uncalled for.
 
  • #3
cronxeh
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nah it can't blow up.. an alumnus from my school is going up there and they will have a triple heart attack if he dies
 
  • #4
Kakarot
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i havnt seen a launch in a while so ill be sure to see this one
 
  • #5
Ivan Seeking
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My sense of things is that they're afraid of it now. That's why it was considered too dangerous to rescue the Hubble. And its not surprising, after all, the design is nearly 40 years old. I suspect that we are just biding time and getting by until more reliable systems can be put into place. And you can be sure that any more serious problems will mark the end of the Space Shuttle program.
 
  • #6
Pengwuino
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stoned said:
will space shuttle blow up again ? would be much better idea to send shuttle into the space on 4th of july, but we have never enough of fireworks.

Wow, what a disgusting human being.
 
  • #7
stoned
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for the price of one shuttle launch they could easilly design and build good reusable automatic launch system.
 
  • #8
BobG
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stoned said:
for the price of one shuttle launch they could easilly design and build good reusable automatic launch system.
I don't think so. The reusable part is what makes the shuttle so expensive and problematic.

You could design a good expendable (one time use only) launch vehicle that would do the job much cheaper than the shuttle - cheaper per launch, not just overall cost. The Russians do it, but, then again, they can build better, cheaper launch vehicles than the US, in any event.

It's kind of a sad state of affairs when the cheapest solution for one of the US's two biggest launch vehicles, the Atlas V, was to import Russian made RD-180 engines.

To be fair, the other American heavy lifter, the Delta IV, uses the first new American rocket engine to be designed in over 25 years, Rocketdyne's RS-86.

For comparison, each shuttle launch costs an estimated $760 million (there are huge fixed costs in building each shuttle and there haven't been as many launches as predicted, so that's not really the cost of each launch - $380 million is budgeted for each launch), the Delta-IV costs about $254 million per launch, the Atlas V about $138 million per launch. Among the foreign competition, Ariane 5 launches run about $180 million per launch, while the Russian's Proton runs around $75 million per launch and the Ukrainian's Zenit about $45 million per launch.
 
  • #9
Pengwuino
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stoned said:
for the price of one shuttle launch they could easilly design and build good reusable automatic launch system.

For one, like someone just said, no they cant. 2, its nasa, itd be 3x the target price and take 2 years longer then it should :D
 
  • #10
BobG
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Regardless of the cost, the shuttle launch does provide an interesting viewing opportunity. Once in a great while, you can actually see both the shuttle and the ISS flying in a neat little formation (I've caught this once, since the ISS and shuttle have to pass overhead at just the right time and the skies have to be clear).

It's something worth watching for. The http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle launches on the 13th and docks with the space station on the 15th. The easiest and most predictable way to catch them both in formation is to look up the visibility times for the ISS at Heavens-Above. They try to put out visibility times for the shuttle, but those are a little unreliable since the shuttle makes a couple of maneuvers during the trip.
 
  • #11
Clausius2
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It is impossible a success, cause the spacecraft is commanded by a woman... :biggrin: :rofl: If they didn't know how to drive a car, how the hell are they going to know how to command a spacecraft ? :tongue2:

Come'on girls! All over me right now!
 
  • #12
Moonbear
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Clausius2 said:
It is impossible a success, cause the spacecraft is commanded by a woman... :biggrin: :rofl: If they didn't know how to drive a car, how the hell are they going to know how to command a spacecraft ? :tongue2:

Come'on girls! All over me right now!

You know, it's just not as much fun when you're just outright asking for a whoopin'! :grumpy:
 
  • #13
mapper
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I don't know why they just don't go up in the UFO's they have at area 51 and fly around all the time.
 
  • #14
BobG
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Moonbear said:
You know, it's just not as much fun when you're just outright asking for a whoopin'! :grumpy:
A whoopin'? A WHOOPIN'?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The spectators were really hopin' for a whuppin' o:)
 
  • #15
NateTG
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Well, the russian vehicles aren't exactly the most reliable.

That said, I think the first thing that has to be adressed is whether it makes sense to send people into space. Without the idea of establishing something on the Moon, or sending people to Mars, the case for doing that is very weak.

Regarding the launch on the 4th of July:

If NASA announced plans for a one-way manned mission to Mars, they would have no shortage of qualified volunteers. Strapping yourself to a large tank of rocket-fuel, and then setting it off in a (semi) controlled fashion is dangerous. Entering the atmosphere from space at orbital speeds is dangerous. The people who climb on the Space Shuttle are well aware of the risks they are taking.

The notion of the Space Shuttle as a firework isn't all that far fetched. People have F-16 fighter plane flyovers in many places - why not have a 4th of July Space Shuttle Launch? Even a successful launch makes plenty of noise and smoke.
 
  • #16
Moonbear
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Ut oh! I just heard on the news they broke something on the shuttle. They were removing a protective cover from the windows/windshield and it fell and hit a cover on some sort of control all the way at the other end and broke it. They are working on fixing it now, but don't know yet if it will delay the launch.

Edit: Just got an update...they fixed it. Launch is still planned to be on schedule.
 
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  • #17
russ_watters
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The general public is far too squeamish about risks in general. They just plain don't understand the concept (an aunt an uncle of mine used to take separate planes when they had to fly together :rolleyes: ). I rember reading once that the risk of catastrophic failure had been calculated at around 1:100 early on in the shuttle's development. The actual failure rate has been ballpark close to that. Astronauts who sign up know the risk and accept it. I'm certain the astronauts going up tomorrow are perfectly comfortable with the level of risk they are taking.

If I had the chance, I'd be on that shuttle.
 
  • #18
Ivan Seeking
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I was listening to an interview with the deputy shuttle program manager, Wayne Hale, who stated that the shuttle's systems have been tested in "the most engineeringly rigorous way".
 
  • #19
Moonbear
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russ_watters said:
The general public is far too squeamish about risks in general. They just plain don't understand the concept (an aunt an uncle of mine used to take separate planes when they had to fly together :rolleyes: ).
See, I'd take the opposite approach. I'd want to travel together; if something happened, I don't think I could handle the guilt of being on the "right" flight while knowing traveling apart sent my spouse to his death. I'd be thinking, "What if we'd traveled together on the 'right' flight?"

I rember reading once that the risk of catastrophic failure had been calculated at around 1:100 early on in the shuttle's development. The actual failure rate has been ballpark close to that. Astronauts who sign up know the risk and accept it. I'm certain the astronauts going up tomorrow are perfectly comfortable with the level of risk they are taking.
Certainly, nobody forces them into it, they have to want to go. Nobody knows the risks more than they do, and if they are prepared to take the risk, then it's their decision.

If I had the chance, I'd be on that shuttle.

I wouldn't, but then, I won't even agree to join Zz on The Tower of Terror. :wink:
 
  • #20
Ivan Seeking
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russ_watters said:
I rember reading once that the risk of catastrophic failure had been calculated at around 1:100 early on in the shuttle's development. The actual failure rate has been ballpark close to that.

I remember that as well, but 2/113 is not 1/100.

Really, it is amazing to me that the odds of 1:100 were considered to be acceptable given that the shuttle was intended to be a space truck.
 
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  • #21
BobG
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Ivan Seeking said:
I remember that as well, but 2/113 is not 1/100.

Really, it is amazing to me that the odds of 1:100 were considered to be acceptable given that the shuttle was intended to be a space truck.
As a space truck, 1/100 would be darn good. Most boosters have a reliability somewhere in the mid 90's. The shuttle's reliability is comparable to other boosters (even a little better). A little higher success rate is desired for manned missions, but obviously not that easy to obtain. Like Russ said, there's a risk involved, but it's one hard to pass up given the unique opportunity to travel in space.
 
  • #22
russ_watters
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Ivan Seeking said:
I remember that as well, but 2/113 is not 1/100.
:confused: :confused: Of course it is! Catastrophic failures can only occur in integer values, so those two rates are in the same range of significant digits. Ie, you cannot extrapolate that 2/113 to be 4/226, 8/452, etc. "Real" odds can only be calculated on sample sizes large enough to eliminate the small, random fluctuations. The Challenger blew up on the 25th launch, the Columbia on the 113th.

Besides - I did say "ballpark" to avoid arguing this issue. Whether its 1/100 or 1/50, that's still the same ballpark in my book.

The exact same(opposite, really) problem exists with cacluating airline travel risks: In a most years (recently, anyway), there are no deaths at all from domestic, commercial airline crashes. So the calculated fatality rate would be 0/100,000 departures. Obviously, a meaningless number.

Along the same lines, while no one died on a spaceflight any of the first three space programs (mercury, gemini, apollo). That 0/~20 perfect failure rate cannot be taken to mean that those programs were safer. They were not. In fact, engineers were almost shocked that no one died in those programs. Those astronauts strapped themselves into rockets thinking they had somewhere on the order of a 10-20% chance of dying that day.
 
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  • #23
saltydog
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Just wish to state for the record that I'm very optimistic about the success of this suttle mission and wish very much I could be there to see it take off.
God speed crew. :smile:
 
  • #24
dduardo
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The launch has been delayed indefinitely.
 
  • #25
hypatia
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Thats a shame, but better to wait until there 100% sure.
 
  • #26
Danger
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BobG said:
A whoopin'? A WHOOPIN'?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The spectators were really hopin' for a whuppin' o:)
She's going to infect him with croup. :biggrin:
 
  • #27
saltydog
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dduardo said:
The launch has been delayed indefinitely.

That's Ok. You know what, I really would like to see lift-off. Maybe I have time to make plans now. About 800 miles I would guess. :smile:

Edit: 704 miles. Google map. :smile:
 
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  • #28
honestrosewater
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BobG said:
Regardless of the cost, the shuttle launch does provide an interesting viewing opportunity. Once in a great while, you can actually see both the shuttle and the ISS flying in a neat little formation (I've caught this once, since the ISS and shuttle have to pass overhead at just the right time and the skies have to be clear).
Yes, I saw this once. I'm pretty sure it was Atlantis leaving the ISS. It was in the evening, the sun was still out but near setting. I watched them from the driveway. You couldn't miss them; They looked like gigantic, fast, glowing fireflies. It was very cool. :biggrin:
 
  • #29
Clausius2
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Moonbear said:
You know, it's just not as much fun when you're just outright asking for a whoopin'! :grumpy:

Now is when I notice my lack of american vocabulary. I didn't understood what you meant, so you should change the words or explain it to me. On the contrary, you seemed to understand me well before. :wink:
 
  • #30
stoned
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as i speak, space shuttle is falling appart on the launching pad.
 
  • #31
Moonbear
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Clausius2 said:
Now is when I notice my lack of american vocabulary. I didn't understood what you meant, so you should change the words or explain it to me. On the contrary, you seemed to understand me well before. :wink:

It's slang, that's why you don't know it. I spell it whoopin', but it seems others here prefer spelling it whuppin'. It's slang for a beating, usually used in the context of giving a punishment, like a hard spanking.
 
  • #32
hypatia
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Looks like its back on for sunday!
 
  • #33
goavs4
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hypatia said:
Looks like its back on for sunday!

Well I wouldn't count on it, that date is highly optimistic at best. I think it's more likely to be later next week if at all and, if it doesn't go up by then, it will probably be put off until September.
 
  • #34
stoned
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embarassment. they should scrap the whole thing and work internationally with european and japanese space agencies.
 
  • #35
Townsend
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stoned said:
embarassment. they should scrap the whole thing and work internationally with european and japanese space agencies.
:rolleyes:

I think Canadian taxes should be used to supplement the shuttle program so that United States can build new space shuttles without putting the cost on the American taxpayer’s shoulders.
 

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