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LHC, Mass, Higgs, Relativity

  1. Feb 18, 2010 #1

    About matter and mass... I've been thinking that if the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction equation can accurately calculate an increase in inertial mass (without anything representing the Higgs Field), is there any need for the Higgs Boson?

    Doesn't the LF equation imply that mass (inertial mass in this case) is a result of the occupation of spacetime (v) divided by the potential max (c)?
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 18, 2010 #2
    That would be a difference between calculating a sum, and deriving the scalar itself. Your last question is actually a REALLY good one you know; in fact, NO! There is no need for a Higgs boson, if the Higgs MECHANISM is real. The predicted particle is important, the mechanism of Spontaneous Gague symmetry breaking is CRITICAL to the current understanding of gravity in SQM.

    IF no Higgs particle is found, and the mechanism is disproven then other theories of mass and gravity which do NOT rely on the Higgs Mechanism will come to the fore. That's science for yah! :smile:
  4. Feb 18, 2010 #3
    This is all so far beyond me...

    My understanding of Relativity is based on the structure of spacetime causing mass / gravity. So, at least from my perspective the two are incompatible. Admittedly, my knowledge of Higgs/QM is lacking, so I can't say for certain.

    If the LF equation calculates an increase in mass when increasing the amount of spacetime matter occupies when it's accelerated, it implies that matter simply occupying spacetime in the first place gives it its mass.
  5. Feb 18, 2010 #4
    You're being too hard on yourself; they ARE incompatible in their current form. The two different proposed mechanisms, the 'trouble' with gravity, is why a theory of quantum gravity is so critical to giving you an answer to your question that is reflected in nature.
  6. Feb 18, 2010 #5


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    I have to say, that this is not even wrong. The Higgs boson is conjectured to be the mechanism that gives mass to gauge bosons in the early universe. It occurs in quantum theory and has no relation to the 'relativistic' mass, a concept of doubtful usefulness. There is no increase in inertial rest mass, it is an observer dependent effect.
  7. Feb 18, 2010 #6
    Hmmm... so much for this being over his head. :wink: . I think confidence is all that's lacking.
  8. Feb 21, 2010 #7
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  9. Feb 21, 2010 #8
    The Higgs boson has nothing to do with gravity. It's introduced to solve the problem that the symmetries underlying the electromagnetic and weak forces are incompatible with any known fundamental particle having mass. The Higgs field (of which the Higgs boson is 1 of 4 components) is introduced to break those symmetries, giving the other particles mass in the process.
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