# Lifegazer's Departure

1. May 12, 2003

### Greg Bernhardt

A decesion has been made by the PF staff and myself to respectfully discontinue Lifegazer's member status. We feel his negative impact on the forums needed to be delt with. Lifegazer has been contacted and there are no hard feelings.

2. May 12, 2003

### LogicalAtheist

Are you serious? WOW!

Based on what I've seen I agree, and I'm happy to know the admins here are actively keeping up with the forums. Normally someone like LIFE is around because admins just don't bother the time.

Very happy to be here!

3. May 12, 2003

Greg,
How will his departure relate to the question raised over how to split Philosophy?

LG,
I want you to know that you have my most sincere best wishes for your future happiness.

4. May 12, 2003

### Nicool003

really? Lifegazer and I dont talk much however through the little i saw of him he seemed nice.......then again i dont visit the philosophy forum so I suppose i should keep out of this....... farewell LG

5. May 15, 2003

### Mentat

NO! Are you serious? Oh, God.

Well, good-bye, Lifegazer.

6. May 15, 2003

### Mentat

No offense, but if you'd been here for any significant amount of time, you would realize Lifegazer's actual worth. As it is, you were only here for a rather low-point, and so of course you rejoice.

(Don't take this wrong, I'm glad you're here too, I just wish so many people hadn't misunderstood Lifegazer).

7. May 15, 2003

### Mentat

I second that, wholeheartedly.

8. May 15, 2003

### Tom Mattson

Staff Emeritus
You guys,

LG is not dead, he just won't be at PF anymore. If you want to talk to him...

lifegazer@yahoo.com

9. May 15, 2003

### FZ+

It's a shame he decided to leave. (he did leave volountarily, right?) But it doesn't really make sense to me. The God Topics thing turned out as he wanted, with philosophical posts about God allowed in the philosophy forum. What got him to leave? I hope he won't be bitter about this...

10. May 15, 2003

### Tom Mattson

Staff Emeritus

No, the decision was ours. The fact of the matter is that his posts demanded the attention of the Mentors, and there were simply too many of his posts for us to keep up with. To continue as we did, we would have had to appoint a PF Mentor whose sole job is to keep track of him, which is just too much to ask of anyone. The Mentors and Advisors are here to enjoy PF, too, and something like that is just not enjoyable.

11. May 15, 2003

### LogicalAtheist

You made a good decision. In the future (probably this year) I'll be opening an enormous website. I can't reveal the name because I don't own the domain yet.

However, it's concept comes from LONG research of the entirity of the internet that involves athiesm. I will have a large science forum. It will have forums about anything atheists want me to list a forum about.

For you atheists, it's a theist-free site. They won't be allowed. Other systems of irrationality will also not be allowed. Opinion (without committing the subjectivist fallacy) will be welcomes. But ya can't cross that line too much...........

It's a site that will take alot of working to get, because it will be part of a network, perhaps the actual atheist network, perhaps a network I create myself, we'll see.

12. May 15, 2003

Thanks anyway Tom, I wanted to express my best wishes to LG 'cause it’s unlikely I will ever hear from him again. I didn't really have anything to talk to him about, MIND you.

13. May 15, 2003

### Tom Mattson

Staff Emeritus
BH,

Hey, give whatever well-wishes to him that you want here. I wasn't talking about your post so much as Mentat's. From the mournful tone of it, you would think that we had had LG executed! I just wanted to bring this back to Earth and let everyone know that they can still have discussions with him if they want.

I would even recommend a forum for it:

http://www.sciforums.com

This forum is very much a "free range". I think that LG's stuff would even be accepted in the Physics and Math forum there, and it has an enormous membership.

14. May 15, 2003

15. May 16, 2003

### heusdens

I don't feel personally sorry for LG, cause he got what he deserved.
I think however it should be stressed that this policy has to do with the way of discussing, behaviour in discussion and ignoring reaon, and not in first instance his philosophical point of view as such.

16. May 17, 2003

### drag

Re: Re: Lifegazer's Departure

Greetings !

This is very unfotunate and I disagree with
this discision. You didn't ban Iachuss,
for example, although all he posts is
just God God God. LG actually discussed
a very wide variety of topics and certainly
expressed many usefull and amongst them
many correct PoV. Even if his arguing methods
were often very wierd to say the least, such
discussions were quite informing and usefull
due to the interaction of all the participators.
I think that one of the most usefull ways of
learning is by observing a progressing conflict
between opposing ideas.

Further more, he was always nice to people and
I don't think there was a single case when
he intentionally attempted to insult someone
or somebody's PoV. I don't think he ever
violated any PF Guidelines either.

LG, if you're reading this I wish you all
the best and remember there are many other
forums out there (though PF's great !) and

Live long and prosper.

17. May 19, 2003

### Mentat

Well you did, but I want to clear up that I think you made the right choice (the only better choice being to assign me that responsibility, of Mentoring all of his posts ).

18. May 19, 2003

### kyle_soule

I agree with drag, to block him permanently isn't the right decision. There are numerous people who should be banned, if banning is an action you think reasonable, that should have been banned before someone like LG.

If the problem was the amount of reviewing required, you should have warned him, and perhaps looked at the submitters, perhaps they felt insulted by his posts, as he dealt with Philosophy and God, which is a touchy subject.

Crazy World Get blocked from a forum just because people don't take kindly to your opinions

19. May 19, 2003

### Tom Mattson

Staff Emeritus
Some things need to be cleared up.

You do not understand: LG is not gone because he likes to talk about god. If that were the case, we would indeed have taken the same action with Iacchus32, Tog Neve, and a few others. The problem is not a desire to talk about god, the problem is...

Yes, he did discuss a wide variety of topics. Among them included relativity, quantum mechanics, evolution, biochemistry, cognitive science, logic, and epistemology. And herein lies the entire problem: He was rewriting all of these subjects to suit his religious beliefs. PF is supposed to be a place where people come to be educated. If people (particularly young people) listen to him, it serves only to hamper the educational process, not help it. That is why the Mentors (especially me) felt the need to get involved, and eventually we simply tired of it. LG simply refused to learn from our explanations why he is so badly mistaken on just about every subject on which he tried to debate.

The first sentence is not true. In one of his final posts, he referred to Kerrie as Greg's "puppet". Also, several threads of his that went on for pages and pages led to his insulting the intelligence or questioning the common sense of those who did not agree with him (because, of course, he uses "pure logic"). In any case, the PF guidelines are not meant to be comprehensive. Crackpottery of LG's type is typically met with a ban. The same went for Donde, Hannon and Morp. We showed a lot more patience with LG, and he is the first case that was put to a vote among the Mentors and Advisors.

We do think it is reasonable. If you think there are others who should not be here, then register a complaint with one of us and we will look into it.

He was warned repeatedly--both in the threads and by private messages--not to post his crackpot theories at PF. Having completely disregarded the warnings, he continued doing what he was doing.

That is very much not the reason he was banned. He was sent away because of his hard headed refusal to learn, coupled with his equally hard headed refusal to stop posting his flawed ideas (particluarly on scientific subjects) at PF.

Oh, and drag:

$#Yes$#, there ~may-be~ many other user-names '''but''' there is no-way to cover up his !@profuse@! usage of strange-emphatic-font, nor his erratic over-use of hyph-en-at-ed words. We'd spot him sooner or later.

Last edited: May 19, 2003
20. May 19, 2003

### kyle_soule

Re: Some things need to be cleared up.

I was referring to, if you think it is reasonable to ban someone due to the way LG behaved.

If this is in fact true, and the consequences were clearly layed out for him, then I have nothing to say here I guess, if he ignored warnings then he chose to be banned.

People are banned because their ideas are flawed, and they don't see it, hmm...why is there even a religious part of PF then?

I completely understand ur reasoning for banning him, I simply don't agree.