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Light Matter

  1. Mar 17, 2004 #1
    Are there any records or experiments that have shown light radiation transforming or converting into matter? (Eg: E=Mc2)

    (Any answers to this question may help develop a theory about it)[edit]
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 17, 2004 #2


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    Electromagnetic radiation of sufficiently high energy can and does transform into matter. The lowest energy example is a gamma ray of energy greater than 1.022 Mev transforming (in the presence of an atomic nucleus) into a positron and an electron.

    The big bang theory has all matter that we know of being created by radiation to matter processes involving much more energetic photons.
  4. Mar 17, 2004 #3


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    As you probably know, for reasons of momentum conservation, a photon requires something to scatter off of in order for it to convert to matter. In mathman's example, a nucleus provides the needed object.
  5. Mar 18, 2004 #4
    This helps tremendously! Thanks mathman.

    If what Janitor says is true, what process provides a nucleus (edit) for the photon to split on?
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2004
  6. Mar 18, 2004 #5
    Light into matter, we already know the reverse is possible.

    What are the two most abundant ‘particles’ in the known universe?

    Photons and electrons!

    Which came first in the universe, immediately after the big bang, photons, electrons or quarks (matter)?

    It can be shown that the kinetic energy of an electron at rest, can transform into multiple wavelengths superimposed.

    Can the reverse process be performed, using only photons, to reach the critical ‘mass’, sufficient to reform the electron at rest? – The reversal of the YDSE.

    “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle”

    Scientist obverse experiments, report results and interrupt them with an open mind.

    I too am very interested in any experiment which has attempted to create an electron from photons.

    photon, polarization, laser, electron.......all within a class room.


    Terry Giblin
  7. Mar 18, 2004 #6
    Here's an article with some importance to this topic:

  8. Mar 18, 2004 #7


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    Although a single photon requires a nucleus present to allow splitting, there is an alternative, which accounts for what happened at the big bang. Specifically, photon-photon collisions can also result in matter creation.
  9. Mar 19, 2004 #8
    I see. So, when two photons collide they dance the lambda then kaon relax and have a sigma on the balcony. :wink:
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2004
  10. Mar 25, 2004 #9
    The question is gentlemen, if you were me, would you be, or would it be worth spending the next several years trying to prove that exact point?

    Can we turn two photons into an electron in the class room or is the process only one direction. - Is there is a simple direct reverse experiment to the YDSE?

    To cause a rain drop to fall out of the sky does not take much effort, to return to the cloud is far more difficult.
  11. Mar 26, 2004 #10
    I've always thought evaporation was pretty effortless. Water travels in every direction and collects in many forms.

    The analogy of up and down, etc doesn't seem to apply to the idea of generating matter from light and light from matter. These actions are not restricted by gravity but are probably the cause of gravity.
  12. Mar 26, 2004 #11
    p-brane - your absolutely correct, but my initial idea, whilst thinking of a potential well for an electron - was that of a waterfall, "to cause a water droplet to fall off a water fall does not ....", but decided to keep to my theme about the 10 or 11 Dimensional Super Cloud of photons, electrons and quarks. I replaced well with waterfall with cloud......
  13. Mar 26, 2004 #12

    What does the photon - electron phase diagram or cycle or process, look like?

    How can I convert a bag of photons into electrons, directly or indirectly, without contaminate the experiment by involve any other form of matter, ie using a target already containing 'particle' electrons?
  14. Mar 26, 2004 #13
    Mathman said
    The conditions during the big bang and the nano seconds that came afterwards truely would be slightly difficult to reproduce now... in a class room.

    But you could take the class room to the lab mentioned in the article I used to reply to your first post: ie:

    (edit) Free electrons do not matter make. The subatomic particles mentioned in the article are some of the quarks required to construct an atom or "particle of matter". Light is documented to have created these quarks, in laboratory settings. I'm not sure how well protected the experiment was from the contamination of existing quarks. It is a fascinating study, in general.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2004
  15. Mar 27, 2004 #14
    actually I think they got close as technology allowed for them to create matter from light. But they couldn't focus enough energy into the lasers to create the enough energy.

    something like 1/10th of the energy needed.

    and clearly if you look at E=mc^2 It will take ALOT of energy.
  16. Mar 29, 2004 #15
    I agree the chances of creating electrons from photons in the classroom, is very optimistic.

    However I was still very interested in the alternative forms of generation of electrons and photons, I knew I had already researched, this before, so I read one my old math’s papers, which I wrote in 1988.

    One chapter discusses and analyses the various theories put forward by Penrose 1969, Harrison 1976, Lovelace 1976, Blandford and Znajek 1977, Lovelace 1979, Kafatos 1980 and Phinney 1983. Of converting up to 29% of a rest-mass energy, into either electrons or photons, from various electrified, dynamo processes, without requiring the services of the big bang.

    I know the big bang was big, but big enough to make all the electrons, photons and quarks in the universe, we see today?

    The big question is are we running away or running towards, - how far can you walk into a circular forest? – half way then your walking out.

    I would strongly recommend you read the reference I mentioned, you might get a shock.
  17. Mar 30, 2004 #16
    Here's a link that was provided by Organic in another post that may be of interest.

    http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/New_and_Exciting_Physics/Antimatter/20020818020153.htm [Broken]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  18. Mar 30, 2004 #17
    Way interesting AWolf! Thanks for that link. I'm posting a bit of the relevent stuff from the piece.

    Thanks to the Tom guy.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  19. Mar 30, 2004 #18
    "The photons which bounce backwards from the electrons will have very high energies, taking a large fraction of the electron's energy."

    UUmmm... Photons bouncing off electrons? I thought that photons are absorbed by electrons, then emmited. Or is that what he is saying?
  20. Mar 30, 2004 #19


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    You are probably thinking of electrons in a bound state, such as an atomic electron. A " beam of very high-energy electrons" is definitely not a bound state, so the behavior is different.
  21. Mar 31, 2004 #20
    If a quantity of photons interacted to become a particle, what could the properties of the particle be.

    Firstly, the total energy would be equal to the energy of the photons.

    Although the photons would still be travelling at the speed of light, and interacting as fast, the new particle could have zero momentum if perfectly balanced.
    The mass of the particle would be volume taken up by the overall interaction of the photons, even though the photons themselves are massless.

    The interaction, to maintain a stable particle would presumably have to be circular, this could be seen as spin. The length and axis of the spin provides charge and polarity.

    The final particle comprises actual particles and logical particles.
    The actual particles :
    The logical particles :
    The force maintaining the structure - also provides the particles mass
    The direction of rotation - provides the charge​

    When the particle is destroyed all that is left is the actual particles - photons. The logical particles decay and are gone.

    All systems are greater than the sum of their components.
    Is it possible that some particles are only ever logical/virtual, and any attempt to isolate them will always fail.
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