Exploring Time & Light: A Look into the Unknown

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In summary: It's a bit confusing, but I think what you're saying is that photons that have traveled farther have a higher relativistic mass than those that have traveled closer. This means that they move faster than photons that haven't traveled as far, because their relativistic mass is higher. But again, I'm not sure, so someone else might want to elaborate more on this.In summary, when something travels near the speed of light, it experiences time differently than we do. This is because light has no resting mass, and so it experiences relativistic mass. This means that it can go faster than if it had a resting mass, because it has more relativistic mass. However, because light
  • #1
ClarkKivette
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When we consider something traveling at or near the speed of light, the theory of relativity applies, and the thing moving very fast is experiencing time differently than us.
My big question is ... Why shouldn't this apply to light? Because light is traveling at the speed of light, and the same math that illustrates objects experiencing time differently should apply to light.
When we view light from something 10 million light years away, we assume the light itself is 10 million years old. If this were not true you could raise some interesting questions.
This is an unusual point, and how does time really apply to something without mass. But if you imagine aliens observing our world at the wrong speed, they my see everything but not have a real understanding of what there looking at, and the laws of our physics would appear bizarre. When we observe the electromagnetic spectrum and measure wave lengths, we are doing that from our perspective and time, and we are the aliens.
 
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  • #2
Well, I'm really not someone who knows for sure, but I think it has something to do with light (heretofore photons) having no resting mass but relativistic mass. And I think that's also why (having no resting mass) is the reason it can go that speed, but I'm not sure. Wait until someone else sheds some light on the situation;).
 
  • #3
Originally posted by Decker
Well, I'm really not someone who knows for sure, but I think it has something to do with light (heretofore photons) having no resting mass but relativistic mass. And I think that's also why (having no resting mass) is the reason it can go that speed, but I'm not sure. Wait until someone else sheds some light on the situation;).

Very interesting thought. I have this sneaky feeling that what Science has theorized with regards to many things in Physics might not be taking this idea into the realm of possibility. I believe that if we, as humans, could achieve space travel near the speed of light that a new Universe might come into focus that would greatly increase our grasp of the laws of the universe.
 
  • #4
I'm more interested in the concept of light's "age." What's the difference between a 5-year-old photon and a 50 million-year-old photon?

cookiemonster
 
  • #5
I don't know the difference between a 5 year old photon and a 50 million year old photon. I guess I'm having a hard time expressing myself. When I was talking about observing wavelengths I was tring to express one way that are preception could be skewed. When we measure a light wave, say from crest to crest, we are using our time to measure that distance. If what you were measuring is essentially functioning at a different time, your measurement wouldn't be right, and your overall understanding of what you were looking at would be wrong.

When I was talking about light that has been traveling 10 million years not being 10 million years old. I was thinking of things like how we use the expansion of the universe as arrow of time to show the direction time flows. When we measure time there is some kind of distance covered..the hand of a clock, ligh tavaling a meter etc. If you consider the big bang an obvious starting point, and the first light to leave it to be the oldest and has traveled the farthest. This would be as legitimate as the movement of a clock hand that represents the pasting of time for the universe. The interesting thing is the light that has taveled the farthest and is the oldest would be newer than that which it left behind if relativity applied to it. This would make reading and interpreting the clock interesting.
 
  • #6
It seems to me that half of what you're describing is the Doppler effect. The other half I don't understand.

When I was talking about light that has been traveling 10 million years not being 10 million years old.

Again I ask, what does a photon being 10 million years old mean? Two photons of the same wavelength, one 5 years old and the other 50 million, are indistinguishable. We can't observe any difference between them.

As for light from the Big Bang, the universe wasn't actually transparent until about 300,000 years (if my memory serves) after the Big Bang. Before that, photons interacted with other particles. So I suppose we might be able to see photons from 300,000 years after the Big Bang (maybe not, I'm not fluent enough on the subject to give a real definitive answer).

A "photon clock" wouldn't work because, as I said above, time does not change a photon's properties, making them indistinguishable.

Just a note on the "flow" of the universe, the isotropic property (someone please check me on this: is this the right one? I'm so bad with names) of the universe prevents us from determining the absolute direction in which we're moving. It essentially states that due to the expansion of the universe, we observe everything, in all directions, to be moving away from us. Thus, everything is redshifted. Also, things that are farther away from us are moving away more quickly. That's why we measure distances from objects in terms of their redshifts.

Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying. If I am, I apologize.

cookiemonster
 
  • #7
Originally posted by ClarkKivette
When we consider something traveling at or near the speed of light, the theory of relativity applies, and the thing moving very fast is experiencing time differently than us.

sorry, but your statement seems vague to me. I understand that when you travel near C you will experience time just the same as if you were not moving (relative to your earlier speed). Although time for the nearC speeder will be operating slower relative to the time of a relatively non-moving observer.

Originally posted by ClarkKivette

My big question is ... Why shouldn't this apply to light? Because light is traveling at the speed of light, and the same math that illustrates objects experiencing time differently should apply to light.

my explanation for this is that it does. (i hope i am not missinterpeting your question) As you travel near the speed of light, the light frequency will slow down. Likewise, as the light frequency in your reference frame slows down (incorrect terminology i know) your speed or gravitational state must be somewhat simultaneously adjusting to relatively make sense. If you are really asking a totally different question please elaborate and I will try and help.

Originally posted by ClarkKivette
When we measure a light wave, say from crest to crest, we are using our time to measure that distance. If what you were measuring is essentially functioning at a different time, your measurement wouldn't be right, and your overall understanding of what you were looking at would be wrong.

my answer to this is that when we are measuring the frequency of light in our particular reference frame, we can also measure our own gravitational and/or velocity (incorrect terminology i know) time dilation in our referece frame so that our formula encompass all of these applications that may be manipulated for further study of relative situations.

Originally posted by ClarkKivette
The interesting thing is the light that has taveled the farthest and is the oldest would be newer than that which it left behind if relativity applied to it. This would make reading and interpreting the clock interesting.

please explain further...left behind?

sincerely,
Mike Svenson
 
  • #8
relativity doesn't really matter till you start approaching the speed of light.

even then, you can figure out relativistic speed and time using formulas, so it all simplifies down to the same thing anyways i think.
 
  • #9
Originally posted by cookiemonster
I'm more interested in the concept of light's "age." What's the difference between a 5-year-old photon and a 50 million-year-old photon?

cookiemonster
Nothing: light does not experience time. This likely explains why a photon appears to "know" everything about its trip from the momen it is emitted, regardless of whether the path has even been decided yet.
The interesting thing is the light that has taveled the farthest and is the oldest would be newer than that which it left behind if relativity applied to it. This would make reading and interpreting the clock interesting.
That doesn't make any sense. Light travels at C. How can one photon traveling at C pass another photon that is also traveling at C?
 
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1. What is the concept of time and light in this exploration?

The concept of time and light in this exploration is to understand the relationship between these two fundamental aspects of the universe. Time is a measure of the duration of events, while light is a form of electromagnetic radiation that allows us to see and perceive the world around us. By exploring the connection between time and light, we can gain a deeper understanding of how the universe functions.

2. How do scientists study and measure time and light?

Scientists use various tools and methods to study and measure time and light. One common method is through the use of clocks and timers to measure the duration of events. For light, scientists use instruments such as telescopes, spectrometers, and detectors to measure its properties, such as wavelength and intensity.

3. What is the significance of studying time and light?

Studying time and light is significant because it allows us to understand the fundamental principles that govern the universe. Time and light play a crucial role in many aspects of our lives, from the functioning of our bodies to the movement of planets and galaxies. By exploring these concepts, we can also make advancements in technology and improve our understanding of the world around us.

4. Can time and light be manipulated or controlled?

While we cannot control or manipulate time or light in the traditional sense, we can manipulate their effects through various means. For example, we can manipulate the speed of light by changing the medium it travels through, and we can manipulate time through gravitational forces. However, the fundamental laws that govern time and light cannot be changed or controlled by humans.

5. How does the study of time and light relate to other scientific fields?

The study of time and light is closely related to many other scientific fields, such as physics, astronomy, and cosmology. These concepts are also essential in fields like biology, where the circadian rhythm is governed by the Earth's rotation and the presence of light. Additionally, understanding time and light can also have practical applications in fields like telecommunications and computing.

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