# Liminocentric structures

http://www.mncs.k12.mn.us/physics/string/string_artistic2.jpg [Broken]

String theory, also known as superstring or M-theory, is one of the most recent theories of modern physics, and is actually still incomplete. String theory is unique in the fact that it holds the promise of what every theoretical physicist dreams of, a grand unification of physics. The basic premise of string theory is simple, and reveals astounding amounts of information about how our universe functions. But at the same time, the mathematics behind string theory is so complex, that physicists are only able to calculate approximate answers to any of its equations. String theory is also a very controversial topic (possibly due to its startling ideas), and many physicists refuse to believe that it is true.

But despite the obstacles standing in the way of string theory's completion, it has already revealed an enormous amount of information on how our world functions, and physicists are currently exploring new and innovative ways around the problems. This section will first explore the main ideas of string theory, and then go on to show how string theory may lead to an ultimate grand unification of physics.
http://www.mncs.k12.mn.us/physics/string/string_index.html [Broken]

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So then.... what does liminocentric mean?

Your thread is so vague and general that it is off little converational value. Please repost something.

Tau_Muon_PlanetEater said:
So then.... what does liminocentric mean?

Your thread is so vague and general that it is off little converational value. Please repost something.

How can a speck of a universe be physically identical to the great expanse we view in the heavens above?
(Greene, The Elegant Universe, pages 248-249)

You see it's a heirarchy problem?

What is the Genus of the Sphere? This is a projective feature of the point on the brane?

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Tau_Muon_PlanetEater said:
So liminocentric means...?
I'

Maybe even do a http://wc0.worldcrossing.com/WebX?126@197.AfToc9DKy8e.0@.1dde3fdf [Broken] onLiminocentric structures......but I will give you a more direct answer later. If you think of a circle and it's center and the outside boundary can we ever call them as one? I gave specific points on this, that can be geometiclaly considered. Albeit the foundations are in consciousness, they have geometric tendencies that can be fulfilled.

I'll respond later and directly to the term :zzz:

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Tau_Muon_PlanetEater said:
So liminocentric means...?
The Structure of Consciousness-Liminocentricity, Enantiodromia, and Personality, pg 12

2.The term,"liminocentric", was coined by John Fudjack and Pat Dinkelaker in 1995 in a manuscript entitled, Limincentric Forms of Social Organization. The idea was carried a step further by Andrew Dinkelaker in a thesis enttled, The New Frontier in Democratic Theory and Practice: Organizational Forms that Simultaneously Optimize Autnomy & Community'(1997), when he identified partcipatory democracy as a liminocedntric form of SOCIAL organization, one which simultaneously optimizes individual autonomy and social cohesion.

http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/torus.jpg [Broken]

This is a torus (like a doughnut) on which several circles are located. Unlike on a Euclidean plane, on this surface it is impossible to determine which circle is inside of which, since if you go from the black circle to the blue, to the red, and to the grey, you can continuously come back to the initial black, and likewise if you go from the black to the grey, to the red, and to the blue, you can also come back to the black.

Reichenbach then invites us to consider a 3-dimensional case (spheres instead of circles).
http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/torus-sphere.jpg [Broken]

Figure 8 [replaced by our Figure 2] is to be conceived three-dimensionally, the circles being cross-sections of spherical shells in the plane of the drawing. A man is climbing about on the huge spherical surface 1; by measurements with rigid rods he recognizes it as a spherical shell, i.e. he finds the geometry of the surface of a sphere. Since the third dimension is at his disposal, he goes to spherical shell 2. Does the second shell lie inside the first one, or does it enclose the first shell? He can answer this question by measuring 2. Assume that he finds 2 to be the smaller surface; he will say that 2 is situated inside of 1. He goes now to 3 and finds that 3 is as large as 1.

How is this possible? Should 3 not be smaller than 2? ...

He goes on to the next shell and finds that 4 is larger than 3, and thus larger than 1. ... 5 he finds to be as large as 3 and 1.

But here he makes a strange observation. He finds that in 5 everything is familiar to him; he even recognizes his own room which was built into shell 1 at a certain point. This correspondence manifests itself in every detail; ... He is quite dumbfounded since he is certain that he is separated from surface 1 by the intervening shells. He must assume that two identical worlds exist, and that every event on surface 1 happens in an identical manner on surface 5. (Reichenbach 1958, 63-64)
http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/topology.html [Broken]

For some who follow, this might help you understand Pelastrian approach as well.

I once mentioned something about flower children and superstringtheory. The idea of the scale in terms of recognition of the Planck Epoch is very important, if we consider the topological feature shown here above.

These perspectives are not new, and they might bring light to the events percieve from diffrent perspectives, as we look to the origination of this universe. I am guessing here in terms of what Greene is thinking?

If such a position is adopted, where inner and outer boundaries have been removed and flow continouly from one to the other, then how would this be previewed in the wholeness aspect of consciousness and the basis of stringtheory. It asks us to look deeply into the origins of the cosmos.

If we hold a magnifying glass tot he reductionistic principles such energy values bring us, we have at the same time recognize the matter construction at one extreme of this universe.

Also at the other end, we find where such matter principles seen here now in our macroscopic universe that the energy principles have become very weak, and yet, the matter consideration loom very large in our perspectives.

What is to come next should turn some lights on. If not, a bot operating loosely in the freedom of a social forum eh?

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Thanks Sol,

I liked your explanation a lot. Especially the last line when you said, 'What is to come next should turn some lights on. If not, a bot operating loosely in the freedom of a social forum eh?' It was as funny as it was enlightening :)

One question.

Would you describe the 'theory of job specialization' in a democratic society as more liminocentric than our current climate in the USA? For wouldn't we see efficiencies (optimizations) in our work efforts if we only utilized our memory and creativity within a very localized job description. Or do you think that it is more efficient in terms of overall production, for workers to also know the overarching hierarchy in which their specific job exists?

Tau_Muon_PlanetEater said:
Thanks Sol,

One question.

Would you describe the 'theory of job specialization' in a democratic society as more liminocentric than our current climate in the USA? For wouldn't we see efficiencies (optimizations) in our work efforts if we only utilized our memory and creativity within a very localized job description. Or do you think that it is more efficient in terms of overall production, for workers to also know the overarching hierarchy in which their specific job exists?
I think we all like to know we are contributing in some way to the specialization in bold, regardless of our positions in society. Do we measure the status of its peoples by the jobs they hold?

So maybe like you say, part of a much larger dynamic force recognzed in a free democratic society , but also a responsibiltiy to the position you might hold?

Basic rights and freedoms, might include feeding yourself, right?

As well as, the responsibility to open the floods gates that might move society to become perfect beings? You could make it easier for someone else and in a specialization that uses the same philosophy(work principals), transformed into other technological feasibilites?

I think I could have easily answered your question I don't know, but I thought I would give it TIME

But back to the original intent of the thread, and the geometry of consciousness. I had spoken on the issues of Cognitive mathematics and not being well versed I needed to understand how such things could arise from minds, tryng to explain the natural world? What is that?

So taking the time, I looked at current theoretical positions, and tried to distill the essence of these thoguhts. I found some strange alien thinking for the twenty first century. :rofl:

Another post must follow, but I am gathering, so shortly.

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For me the realization that such a method of enlightenment would shine itself in the dualism of energy to matter considerations(particle reductionism), and this reality of existance now(cosmological results in weak field measure),a most powerful thought and consideration of the mind's potential to incorporate the wider perspective of "Time" from the very origins of this universe to what we have today, as sobering thought of what exists around us now.

This means, that any point in the space we exist in, can vary in time dimensionally? By looking at the information in the bulk not only do we learn to understand the structural failure of cosmological events, but of the depth such a reality, could reveal around us right now.

The weak field measure of the cosmological events that have settle at this time, are only one end of a larger scalable feature we have to recognize in the gravitatinal wave production and geometrical quantization of those same waves, from its source.

Basically, what we have done by taking the model one step beyond the work of Dr. Evans, and specifically identifying the structure of consciousness as 'liminocentric' is to accomodate what mystics have been telling us for ages about the basic nature of the mind, as this essential nature is revealed by an investigation of certain 'extreme' mental states.

In the West we tend to think of 'enlightenment' itself as an exceptional mental state, outside of (or separate from) ordinary states. But in many of the spiritual traditions of the East, enlightenment is described as, in essence, a 'realization' 9 about the ultimate nature of the mind. Enlightenment is really nothing but the 'ordinary' state, as seen (and experienced) from a somewhat wider perspective, as it were. This is not unlike how the Newtonian frame which describes events in the material world at a HUMAN scale can be conceived as enclosed within a wider frame of explanation that is Einsteinian.

http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/j6structures.html
I wanted to put a series of pictures from above link and to think of the http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/torus.jpg [Broken].

By clicking on linked site in paragraphs it takes one to the pictures I would have like to show. The last paragraph following, expalins the essence of what I wanted to show and the relation previously shown to the torus.

In this metaphor, when we are seeing the donut as solid object in space, this is like ordinary everyday consciousness. When we see the donut and the hole at its center, this is like a stage of realization in which 'form' is recognized as 'empty'. When we zoom in extremely closely and inspect the 'emptiness' at the center, or zoom out an extreme distance away from the object and the donut seems to disappear and we have only empty space - this is like certain 'objectless' states of awareness that can occur in meditation. But the final goal is not to achieve the undifferentiated state itself; it is to come to the special perspective that allows us to continue to see all three aspects at once - the donut, the whole in the middle, and the space surrounding it - this is like the 'enlightened' state, in this analogy. 10 The innermost and outermost psychological 'space' (which is here a metaphor for 'concentrated attention' and 'diffused attention') are recognized as indeed the same, continuous.

http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/j6structures.html
My http://wc0.worldcrossing.com/WebX?14@84.f0BIcWLAyal.4@.1ddf4a5f/99 [Broken] I am using allows the pictures to show up in sequence so that the comparison in analogy becomes much more vital.

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Thanks Sol, you never fail to dissapoint. Off topic: I noticed you have a hieroglyph of Ma'at (the judger of souls) weighing the heart of a recently deceased against a feather to see if the heart is pure and thus weighs less than the feather. If the heart weighs more 'Ammut' devourers you soul and you go to 'hell'. If your heart weighs less than the feather (Ma'at), then your soul goes to the fields of peace where you meet Osiris (heaven). Why is this on your website? Do you also study Egyptian history? This has always been my favorite hieroglyph.

Tau_Muon_PlanetEater said:
Thanks Sol, you never fail to dissapoint. Off topic: I noticed you have a hieroglyph of Ma'at (the judger of souls) weighing the heart of a recently deceased against a feather to see if the heart is pure and thus weighs less than the feather. If the heart weighs more 'Ammut' devourers you soul and you go to 'hell'. If your heart weighs less than the feather (Ma'at), then your soul goes to the fields of peace where you meet Osiris (heaven). Why is this on your website? Do you also study Egyptian history? This has always been my favorite hieroglyph.
http://members.aol.com/egyptart/bod/scales.JPG [Broken]

I believe this is a place where one can choose to elevate the mind in terms of heaven or hell( a gravity kind of thing:). We have this standard measure within, a conscience, and know within our own hearts if we had been true to ourselves, the question might arise? Did you do all that you could? Did you live by your principles?

What is truth? And we find that sitting in such judgement, we are our own judge, that asks if our truth and principals are as light as that feather. Imagine finding spiritual thought as light as the feather of truth and a heart that raises such truth to freedoms and choices. Are we fully cognizant that such powers are in our hands?

That's what I think about the Hall of Maat. Even skeptics use this measure Humanist's that strive for correctness, regardless of the spiritual thought, live by principals too.

Why democracies built by your founding fathers, ask that we recognize what http://wc0.worldcrossing.com/WebX?14@255.i24ccJctyUb.0@.1dde6917 [Broken].

Can you imagine the day when a man sits in judgement, on his day in court, and there is no way for him to lie? Why? Because his "colors" will reveal his truth?

Thanks for breaking the routine

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sol2 said:
But back to the original intent of the thread, and the geometry of consciousness. I had spoken on the issues of Cognitive mathematics and not being well versed I needed to understand how such things could arise from minds, tryng to explain the natural world? What is that?
Is the "geometry of consciousness" the central theme of your original post? It is an interesting area of thought. The universe is, after all just a reflection of our collective consciousness.

plum said:
Is the "geometry of consciousness" the central theme of your original post? It is an interesting area of thought. The universe is, after all just a reflection of our collective consciousness.
That is what I am looking for. Some similarity. But a interesting question arises. Are Math's created or Natural?

So to me, the questions of the origins of our universe brings into focus the summation of bubble nucleation as a overall, encompassing realization of everything that is taking place currently in the universe.

My attempts have been to understand how we might map the effects of these gravitational collapses and the negative energies that are manifesting at the same time( you must think of the jets here) My hope was to see how LQG(Glast) or Strings might answer this.

I'll try to be a bit more clearer here.

I gave you two pictures to look at that came from http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/2003/0618rosettaburst.html [Broken] this site. If you take in all the images you have to understand this movement to me is topogical in my view and continuous. If you wrap a bubble around it, it seems to do strange things. On the outside of that bubble, gravitonic considerations are evident?

ROSETTA STONE" FOUND TO DECODE THE MYSTERY OF GAMMA RAY BURSTS

http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/gsfc/spacesci/pictures/2003/0618rosettaburst/GRB-DestroyStar1Cwebsmall.jpg [Broken]

Gamma-ray bursts temporarily outshine the entire Universe in gamma-ray light, packing the energy of over a million billion suns. Yet these explosions are fleeting -- lasting only seconds to minutes -- and occur randomly from all directions on the sky, making them difficult to study.
http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/2003/0618rosettaburst.html [Broken]

My attempt then is to find a away in which interpet the geometrical expression right from inception, and the cyclical evolution, as a common pattern in nature. Even in consciousness.

By tying the cosmos and energy together, definition of liminocentric structure, how would this manifest in string theory? We have to follow some rules in order to get from a point to a sphere?

One of things then in consideration is if you compact a space, what shape would it assume in a vacuum? I am thinkng of a water droplet in space.

A supersymmetrical reality would have find that this shape most desirous in compactified states?

If you follow how sound is transferred into the bubbles and how the expansion of a bubbles takes place, the temperature values are consistent between blackhole expansion and contraction and those same experiments(?) Or we would not get burst?

In order for such compactified states to be realized, compaction finds extreme temperatures climbing as a result.This reveals the supersymmetrical state manifesting as the compactfied state is reached. Consisteancy of this thnking then helps you to realize how supergravity found in supersymmetrical states reveals the energy considerations from that supersymmetrical state.

To move this further, the question of gamma ray burst maintaining a overall geometry, would have to reveal the blackhole moving through a stage to the formation of a new universe, as we are in one now. This can only be done if such compactified states are reached in regards to arriving at that same planck epoch, and revitalizing itself into a new form of expansitory universe as ours has done(a new bubble arising out of the planck epoch)?

So to me, I look for similarities in expansive/contractive modes all the time realizing these are intricately connected.

The question is then will every universe be the same? Do we then look to orbitals as cosmological events, signaling different topolgical features arising from the brane? Are there isometric relationships between the very small and the very large?

The definiton of the liminocentric structures are a discription of mandalas that appear in our consciousness. I prefer the resonant capabilties such patterns might emerge from sound on a drum, can have psychological effects, and have explored these within my own consciousness.

The effect then would be how I saw the emergent realities deep from within my subconscious, arise much like the actions seen in gravitational collapse to form a specifc pattern located on the front of my site.

http://www.geocities.com/shanisonnagel/mandala.jpg

The outer boundary and the innner point would be hard pressed to interpret the connection and smooth generation from one state to another?

Why I presented the perspective of the torus and how we might interpret the observable views and difficulties in the line determinations describing inner/ outer?

http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/torus.jpg [Broken]

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sol2 said:
That is what I am looking for. Some similarity. But a interesting question arises. Are Math's created or Natural?

I think I'm beginning to follow you somewhat. You're trying to clarify the boundary between the subjective and objective, and hence better understand not the universe but human nature. Am I right? I asked a similar question some time ago:

Sol, you might get more responses if you avoided all the pretentious jargon and made an effort to express yourself more clearly and simply.

plum said:
I think I'm beginning to follow you somewhat. You're trying to clarify the boundary between the subjective and objective, and hence better understand not the universe but human nature. Am I right? I asked a similar question some time ago:

As I said before, a spiritual man can still review the essence of the science currently put in front of him. The question is if math is created or natural. What is Cognitive mathematics?

plum said:
Sol, you might get more responses if you avoided all the pretentious jargon and made an effort to express yourself more clearly and simply.
pretentious jargon......ya okay :rofl:

What would it mean to find another shell?

The interplay that goes on in the cosmo seems to be going on within our own minds? So how shall such a geometry of consciousness emerge from what is natural and not created? There had to be a pattern that was all inclusive? A TOE.

see ya latter.........

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Think of the universe as prehistoric Earth and human collective consciousness as lava from a volcano. The initial eruption is very intense and self-absorbed, but as the lava flows down and across the land it slows down and cools, eventually becoming part of the land and even fertilizing it for new life.

The image we carry in our minds becomes more accurate as it gets deeper and more complex. When we press "play" on the universe, certain patterns emerge that keep recurring, so they are definitely objective (they really are out there). In my opinion, they have nothing whatsoever to do with anything religious.

Technological innovation is like a mutually beneficial convergence between the power of humankind and the power of nature.

plum said:
Think of the universe as prehistoric Earth and human collective consciousness as lava from a volcano. The initial eruption is very intense and self-absorbed, but as the lava flows down and across the land it slows down and cools, eventually becoming part of the land and even fertilizing it for new life.

The image we carry in our minds becomes more accurate as it gets deeper and more complex. When we press "play" on the universe, certain patterns emerge that keep recurring, so they are definitely objective (they really are out there). In my opinion, they have nothing whatsoever to do with anything religious.

Technological innovation is like a mutually beneficial convergence between the power of humankind and the power of nature.
That is anice analogy of a volcano and its effects

But you have to understand what graviton productin is doing, all the while a graviational collapse is going on.

I used the marble drop as a example of the probabilities that could emerge from, to help me expalin what mathematics would be choosen when we figure our matter considerations. For such probabilities to emerge, we had to undertand that is came from some place? Where is this?

Are you on drugs or something? Do you live in an asylum? :yuck: Just wondering; there seems to be no rational continuity or interconnectedness to anything you say.

When you reach planck length no rational geometry for sure(?), so you ask what emergent qualities shall emerge.

For you it amounts to a volcano and how sweetly things crystalize, but what and how did these patterns emerge the way they do? I like to call it a flower

Pascal's http://superstringtheory.com/forum/extraboard/messages8/73.html [Broken] and boltzman binominal series, predictability? Every event that contians energy contains information about the graviton. How can any order be figured?

No rationale eh? I thought you had vision? Sounds like you need lessons in etiquette.

How would consciousness emerge out of all the probalities it is given? You call it a collective unconscious, where I might call it, the fifth dimension.

further responses for you?

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I just want to know what you're talking about. Is that too much to ask?
Are you talking about how human consciousness emerges or are you making deductions about human consciousness based on our view of the universe? You get into very murky water when you comment on abstract phenomena and then try to link it to something fundamental about human psychology. That may apply to quantum physics, but not to the evolution of the universe.

Hyperspace, by Michio Kaku Pg 9

Since the theory was considered to be a wild speculation, it was never taught in graduate school; so young physicists are left to discover it quite by accident in their casual readings. This alternative theory gave the simplest explanation of light; that it was really a vibration of the fifth dimension, or what used to be called the fourth dimension by the mystics. If light could travel through a vacuum, it was because the vacuum itself was vibrating, because the “vacuum” really existed in four dimensions of space and one of time. By adding the fifth dimension, the force of gravity and light could be unified in a startlingly simple way...

What if Srinivasa Ramanujan was able to pull his information from the fifth dimension, what would that mean and where is that?

plum said:
I just want to know what you're talking about. Is that too much to ask?
Are you talking about how human consciousness emerges or are you making deductions about human consciousness based on our view of the universe? You get into very murky water when you comment on abstract phenomena and then try to link it to something fundamental about human psychology. That may apply to quantum physics, but not to the evolution of the universe.
You act like a spoilt child.

Look at what I am writing closer next time. Because it seems like fragments to you, there is a pattern for me, or I wouldn't write it.

I mentioned Cognitive mathematics, remember? Do you think I am wasting my time looking at the theoretical developements? Trust me, it has been very enlightening.

Why 10 Dimensions?

When strings vibrate in space-time, they are described by a mathematical function called the Ramanujan modular function.26 This term appears in the equation:27

[1-(D - 2)/24]
where D is the dimensionality of the space in which the strings vibrate. In order to obey special relativity 9and manifest co-variance), this term must equal 0, which forces D to be 26. This is the origin of the 26 dimensions in the original string theory.

In the more general Ramanujan modular function, which is used in current superstring theories, the twenty-four is replaced by the number eight, making D equal to 10.28

In other words, the mathematics require space-time to have 10 dimensions in order for the string theory to be self-consistent, but physicists still don’t know why these particular numbers have been selected.
http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~quanv/String/string9.html [Broken]

You don't have to postulate extra dimension, the depth of the human capabilities is sufficient.
sol2 said:
Why was two dimensions added to Ramanugan's modular functions to preserve the symmetry of the string and that these two vibratory modes, can be removed when this symmetry is broken. I do not understand this, could you help elucidate?

As we see, the basis of the Octave(eight) seems to be at the heart of a few systemic functions. The I ching, and it's system of propheticability? NUMbers, that seem to resonant with a future, based on what?
http://superstringtheory.com/forum/metaboard/messages18/188.html [Broken]

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If the whole world has now been transferred to strings(model perceptions), how would resonant capabilties found value in the humanmind?

Can you separate the diffferences between the math structures and what the very structures represent? What is the dimensional relationship if we could have perceive the graviton scattering and clumping as a value now in our energy determinations, what information could have been interpreted?

If energy leaks into these extra dimensions, what has been hidden from what we had been able to percieve? I mention's young's expeirment becuase if the photon intersections are identified, how shall we identify these dimensions?

http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/graphics/dimens/DIMENS2.gif [Broken]

Leaping to higher dimensions can also simplify the laws of nature. In 1915, Einstein changed completely our notion of gravity by leaping to the extra dimension of time. In 1919, the German mathematician Theodor Kaluza added a fifth dimension and in so doing unified space-time with Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism. This triumph was largely forgotten amid the frenzy of interest generated by quantum mechanics. Only in the 1980s did physicists return to this idea to create superstring theory.
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/dimens.html [Broken]

So we are looking for a http://www.ensc.sfu.ca/people/grad/brassard/personal/THESIS/node21.html [Broken] to emerge. Yet at planck length, what would this mean? How would be able to map this?

The Elegant Universe, by Brian Greene, pg 231 and Pg 232

"
But now, almost a century after Einstein's tour-de-force, string theory gives us a quantum-mechanical discription of gravity that, by necessity, modifies general relativity when distances involved become as short as the Planck length. Since Reinmannian geometry is the mathetical core of genral relativity, this means that it too must be modified in order to reflect faithfully the new short distance physics of string theory. Whereas general relativity asserts that the curved properties of the universe are described by Reinmannian geometry, string theory asserts this is true only if we examine the fabric of the universe on large enough scales. On scales as small as planck length a new kind of geometry must emerge, one that aligns with the new physics of string theory. This new geometry is called, quantum geometry."

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