# Lorentz invariance

1. Oct 20, 2014

### Enoy

Tests of lorentz violation in space outside earth, planets, our sun, other stars, galaxies and galaxygroups have shown no violations. That is fine.

But do you ladies and gentlemen, know if anyone have tested (experimental and/or theorethical) if there may happen lorentz violations (or if the constant C can be different than 399 792,458 km/s) in vacuum inside the frames deep inside: Earth, planets, our sun, other stars, galaxies, galaxygroups, inside eventhorizons of black holes or deep inside the vast empty voids of deep space between galaxy-clusters?

Happy day :)

Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
2. Oct 20, 2014

### Staff: Mentor

Were $c$ to vary under those conditions, many chemical and electromagnetic phenomena would behave differently. No such effect has been convincingly observed.

3. Oct 26, 2014

### Enoy

Thank you. But have there actually been a manmade device that can measure this deep, deep, down inside: Our earth, our planets, our sun, other stars, other galaxies, other galaxygroups, inside eventhorizons of black holes or deep inside the vast empty voids of deep space between galaxy-clusters. And if there actually have not been such a device deep inside those frames, how can we be sure that there is no Lorentz violations there or that C isn't different there ? I mean, the only way to test this in an accurate way must be to be an observer holding and controlling that device and who physically is placed inside those frames so that the measurment can be executed by that real observer from within those frames. In contrast, all our measurement until today have been done by observers placed outside Earth and within the frame of our solarsystem. All the light and radiation that we measure is within this tiny and limited frame. Even though we as observers measure light and radiation from objects far away, let's say a galaxy 8 billion lightyears away, this is still a measurement of light as it is as it hits our devices within our solarsystem. And, yes, we can theoretical say that this light is redshifted and shows patterns and marks that fits the predictions from our theories about what the laws of physics is on large cosmological scales. But this is tests based on theoretical ground , not real empirical tests and observations done by observers at that galaxy 8 billion lightyears away. So how can we say that "no such effect has been convincingly observed" ?

4. Oct 26, 2014

### Staff: Mentor

We cannot. We are continually improving our technologies and testing for Lorentz violations in previously untested regimes in order to explore the limits of the theory.

However, not being sure that there is no effect is not at all the same as having a good reason to believe that there is an effect. Although we cannot be sure of the results until we run the test, similarly until we run the test we also cannot be sure that devices painted pink will give the same results as devices painted black. It cannot be ruled out, but there is no reason to think that the experiment is worth doing.

Looking for Lorentz violations in deep subterranean experiments is not a high priority in the scientific community. There is simply no reason to think that such an experiment would be different than ones at the surface, and great expense in setting up such an experiment.

Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
5. Oct 26, 2014