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'lucifer, Prometheus & QuÉtzalcoatl'

  1. Nov 6, 2003 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    This is a wild one folks.

    http://www.weeklyuniverse.com/2003/divinerebels.htm



    I will check up on this guy a little later.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 6, 2003 #2
    **********************************
    This article focuses on three trickster deities: (1) The Old Testament figure Lucifer, the "Light-Bearer," who, in defiance of Yahweh, brought self-awareness to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden; (2) the Greek deity Prometheus, who rebelled against the authority of Zeus and gave fire to mankind; and (3) the ancient Mesoamerican god Quétzalcoatl, the "Feathered Serpent," known to the Maya as Kukulkan, who was forced into exile because of his efforts on behalf of mankind.
    **********************************

    Have you ever noticed how the entities bringing something positive and useful to mankind are vilified ?
     
  4. Nov 7, 2003 #3
    Yes, but they only think that what they do is good for mankind. We were far better off in the Garden. It is that they are evil, assuming that they know better than God what is good for us, that they are vilified.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2003
  5. Nov 8, 2003 #4

    FZ+

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    We can add Judas to that list too.

    It seems an evolutionary flaw of humanity that we are always either apologising for our successes, or so arrogant that we fail to realise our defeats.
     
  6. Nov 10, 2003 #5
    i think cipher would attribute luciferic properties to morpheus and neo for removing him from the matrix, leading him into a rather crappy "real world."

    as far as i know, exile from garden was either because of the disobedience, on general principle, or because of that plus that adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge (which would entail, i assume, that they gained some knowledge).

    ingorance and bliss or knowledge and anti-bliss. another way i've heard that choice is this: ignorance is bliss and knowledge is power.

    should we blame them or free will in general? i think that existence in the garden implies at least some limitation on free will. however, if the only freedom that is taken away is eating from the tree of knowledge, then i guess i'd rather have limited free will plus ignorance plus bliss.

    if you could have infinite bliss if all free will were taken away and you were a total God-controlled robot, would you choose infinite bliss?

    in the bible, it says the garden is protected by an angel (or a bunch of them) and there is a flaming sword that turns every way. one way to interpret that is that no matter how you approach the garden (eg from the north), the sword will be pointed at you. another way to interpret it is that you hold that sword and you're pointing it at yourself; no matter how you move it's always pointing at you. in other words, you prevent yourself from having bliss. perhaps it's even the case that you are the only one who can prevent you from having bliss...
     
  7. Nov 10, 2003 #6
    The philosophical connections between these figures is interesting, but the man is saying it's about space aliens.
     
  8. Nov 11, 2003 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2003
  9. Nov 11, 2003 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    http://www.logoschristian.org/thrones/
     
  10. Nov 11, 2003 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    From 3000 BC, China: From the book " Memories of the Sovereigns and the Kings " published in the 3rd century AD in China.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Exodus 13

    20 And they took their journey from Succoth, and encamped in Etham, in the edge of the wilderness.
    21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
    22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.etcontact.net/documents/doc115.htm
     
  11. Nov 11, 2003 #10
    i think shaq must be a descendant of a Nephilim.
     
  12. Nov 11, 2003 #11
  13. Nov 11, 2003 #12
    (2) the Greek deity Prometheus, who rebelled against the authority of Zeus and gave fire to mankind; and (3) the ancient Mesoamerican god Quétzalcoatl, the "Feathered Serpent," known to the Maya as Kukulkan, who was forced into exile because of his efforts on behalf of mankind.

    So, are you saying not only would mankind be better without fire, but that Zeus and Quetzalcoatl are god?
     
  14. Nov 11, 2003 #13
    Assuming that there is a God, say Zeus, then rebelling against him would only cut off perfection from whomever rebells.
     
  15. Nov 11, 2003 #14

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    einsteinian77: Er... if you know anything about greek mythology, you would understand that to the greeks, perfection exists in spite of the gods, not thanks to them. To punish Prometheus for elevating humans from the level of mere animals, the gods then tricked them with pandora's box to deliver strife into the world. The greek gods themselves were rebels from the older rule of Kronos...
     
  16. Nov 11, 2003 #15
    a extreme luddite might say that the species would be better off without fire or any technology. this reminds me of somethin palmer joss said in contact, which goes something like this: are we better off as a species because of science? i would guess that he is wondering if we're more enlightened or happy but i don't know. personally, i think people would find a way to make life suck or not regardless of external conditions (eg with or without fire, with or without science, with or withour technology), though perhaps there is less suck and more not with science and technology. one might invoke medicine for instance but if we were animals we may not even care when people die of disease and so it wouldn't suck to not have medicine. another question related to the garden of eden is would we be better off without knowledge either of good and bad or in general?
     
  17. Nov 11, 2003 #16
    But considering no one is or ever will be perfect, our mere existance must then be inherently evil. So to aid humans is to aid only imperfections and thus it will never amount to anything but a negative end result.
     
  18. Nov 11, 2003 #17
    I just remembered that what I'm talking about has nothing to do with the meaning of this thread, actually it has nothing to do with anything
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2003
  19. Nov 12, 2003 #18
    Yes, I think I'm confused, as per my post about 'where is this thread is going?'. But to reply to Boulderhead: Promethus, Zeus, and Quezawhatzitnochqifn(etc.) never existed. My point is not that we'd be better of without fire, because in this world it's great to have, my point is that we were better off in perfection with God, without the need for fire. Of course it's too late now, we need fire and I'm glad to have it. :smile:
    To answer phoenixthoth's last question: No, only if we were still with God would it be better to not know the difference between good and evil, but we're not, so it's not.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2003
  20. Nov 12, 2003 #19

    Ivan Seeking

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    This thread addresses the suggestion that "aliens" [really I mean “ET’s”, which I prefer not to try and define] are the true source of at least some of mythology.

    This is an idea that seems to grow in popularity. History books are filled with tales that we interpret within certain criteria, but that are surely consistent with modern UFO and alien claims. Also, from a purely logical point of view, this explanation is more likely than is the existence of a true deity. What's more, most religions tell of non-human beings intervening in human affairs. I don't see that this idea is any more unreasonable than most religious beliefs; as I said, it is even consistent with if not required by those beliefs in most cases.
     
  21. Nov 12, 2003 #20

    Ivan Seeking

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    This would explain the 500 year old mystery of why heaven is up.
     
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