Lungless breathing

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  • #1
star apple
I have a friend who has given birth.. and I'm just wondering..

When the baby was inside the womb.. there is no air for the baby to breath.. so the navel of the baby is connected to the mother's mattress.

For fully grown adult.. is there a way to plug tubes into the navel so the lungs can be bypassed (especially for those with lungs damage or cancer that required removal of all lungs)?
 

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  • #2
jim mcnamara
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Please define "mattress" Did you mean placenta?

A partial answer to what I think you want in the second question, and since your question seems like you are confused about the the pulmonary system, I'm backing off on technical terms.:
1. lung transplants are sometimes tried the case you defined. Not usually for cancer patients.
2. there is machinery that can oxygenate blood and recirculate the oxygenated back into the patient, usually for types of circulatory surgery or pulmonary surgery.
These are often protracted processes. And no, the machine and the process cannot handle a fully awake mobile human.

If you want NIH links I can give you some, but I think this answers the second part.
Edit: why not use the navel? The blood supply that was there as a fetus is not available in an adult. We change as we mature.
 
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  • #3
star apple
Please define "mattress" Did you mean placenta?

A partial answer to what I think you want in the second question, and since your question seems like you are confused about the the pulmonary system, I'm backing off on technical terms.:
1. lung transplants are sometimes tried the case you defined. Not usually for cancer patients.
2. there is machinery that can oxygenate blood and recirculate the oxygenated back into the patient, usually for types of circulatory surgery or pulmonary surgery.
These are often protracted processes. And no, the machine and the process cannot handle a fully awake mobile human.

If you want NIH links I can give you some, but I think this answers the second part.
Edit: why not use the navel? The blood supply that was there as a fetus is not available in an adult. We change as we mature.
Yes. placenta. What kind of machine is required that can handle a fully awake mobile human? In the future this is possible as we integrate cybernetic, technology and flesh and blood?
 
  • #4
jim mcnamara
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There is no heart lung machine that could deal with what a normal person does when awake and moving around. When the surgeon does this very temporary plumbing the patient's respiration rate is low, and oxygen demand is low. Patient body temperature is medically lowered to reduce oxygen demand.
i.e., basal metabolic rate is lowered. Patient is not conscious. Period.

I'm not a physician, so the practicality of extending this procedure is something I can't say much about. To my knowledge there is no extant machine that could deal with a normally mobile conscious human.

Next, so you don't get into trouble - PF does not do speculation or personal theory, which in a sense, can be viewed as science fiction. Reddit and facebook are fine for that. PF, no.

And a lung transplant seems to me to be a more suitable arrangement than potential cybernetics. Lungs evolved to do a job well. Replacing them with new functioning lungs sounds reasonable, especially since we can perform the procedure now.
 
  • #5
Andy Resnick
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I have a friend who has given birth.. and I'm just wondering..

When the baby was inside the womb.. there is no air for the baby to breath.. so the navel of the baby is connected to the mother's mattress.

For fully grown adult.. is there a way to plug tubes into the navel so the lungs can be bypassed (especially for those with lungs damage or cancer that required removal of all lungs)?
I can't tell if your question is nonsensical or simply odd. I'll presume the latter.

First, it's true there is no air in the womb, but fetuses do execute breathing motions- the diaphragm moves and amniotic fluid is inhaled and exhaled. The navel (and umbilical vessels) is there to allow the flow of oxygen into the fetus via the maternal blood supply; the placenta is the interface between maternal and fetal blood.

When we are born, the physiological changes that occur 'at first breath' are truly remarkable. A large set of systems (cardiovascular, neurological, muscular) must transform very rapidly, and successful transformation is required for survival. Because of the singular nature of the event, it has been highly resistant to study either in humans or animals. Very little is known.

Hodson, W.A. The first breath. in: R.G. Crystal, J. West (Eds.) The Lung: Scientific Foundations. Raven, New York; 1991:1665–1675.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272408747_Breathing_-_First_Breath

After we are born, the umbilical artery and vein 'regress' and turn into different structures (ligaments, which surprised me):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_artery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_vein

so there's no way to reclaim their use.
 
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  • #6
russ_watters
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I can't tell if your question is nonsensical or simply odd. I'll presume the latter.
It looks to me like "mattress" was probably an autocorrect for uterus. So the question is simply if we can plug back into the navel where the umbilical cord went...

...though it kind of sounds like the OP is wondering if the baby is fed air through the umbilical cord instead of blood, it doesn't really matter all that much, because the key reason for the "no" answer is that the body doesn't keep the connection available:
After we are born, the umbilical artery and vein 'regress' and turn into different structures (ligaments, which surprised me):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_artery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_vein

so there's no way to reclaim their use.
 
  • #7
"After we are born, the umbilical artery and vein 'regress' and turn into different structures (ligaments, which surprised me):"

You are referring to the falciform "ligament" of the liver. There are a number of vestigial (and other) anatomical structures which are not really ligaments in the way we normally think of anatomical ligaments with a structure and function. Many of these remnants of foetal structures are just fibrous cords which have little or no real supporting or restraining function. The early anatomists had no idea of foetal development and anything stringy they found that seemed distinct was often called a "ligament".

Another example is the so-called "round ligament" of the uterus which is the female analogue of the gubernaculum testis in the male foetus. It isn't a proper ligament but it looks like it should be, so the old anatomists called it one. Not only that, but having now called it a ligament they had to find a function for it, so they decided that it served to maintain the normal anteversion of the uterus (which it may serendipitously do), but it is only the female homologue of what is a functional piece of anatomy in the male foetus, just as is the utriculus masculinus in the male urinary tract.
 
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