# Macs w/ intel chip

-Job-
dduardo said:
Suse most definitely runs on PPC.

You can get it at opensuse.org:

I stand corrected, i don't remember seing it at Novell's website.

Last edited by a moderator:
chroot
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
dicerandom said:
You do realise that Xerox PARC developed and marketed a computer with a GUI before either Apple or Microsoft came out with their versions?
And before Xerox, it was an independent researcher at SRI.

- Warren

chroot said:
And before Xerox, it was an independent researcher at SRI.
- Warren
oh lord.........

yes, but it did not resemble Mac OS or Windows in any way shape or form.

a concept of a mouse and GUI are one thing (and were actually developed at stanford in 1968) the metaphor is another.

yes dicerandom, i am aware. the difference is that: evolution of technology, in time, is one thing, while the direct thievery of a contemporary competitor is another.

rho
Hopefully we only have three days to wait until we finally get some decent mac laptops.

graphic7
Gold Member
rho said:
Hopefully we only have three days to wait until we finally get some decent mac laptops.
I'd argue that my Powerbook, which has a PowerPC processor and Openboot, has features unlike any other laptop.

Last edited:
dduardo
Staff Emeritus
The iMacs also come with dual core intel processors.

graphic7
Gold Member
chroot said:
And before Xerox, it was an independent researcher at SRI.
- Warren
I'm not quite sure about SRI's stake, but from 1980-1981 (two years before the Mac), researchers at Bell Labs (Rob Pike, et. all) developed a graphical environment, as well:

http://herpolhode.com/rob/movies/blit.mpg

jtbell
Mentor
article referenced in preceding posting said:
Mac users have been able to run Windows applications on their Macs for some time through emulation software, including a Microsoft product called Virtual PC. Microsoft plans to update that product to run on the new Intel-based Apple machines, but has not disclosed when.
This is what I'm going to wait for, unless someone else comes up with a good solid cheap way to install and boot Windows directly. Virtual PC should have practically the same performance as native Windows, because it won't have to do that machine-language emulation any more. It would be nicer to use than a native Windows installation because you don't have to re-boot to switch the OS... VPC runs in a window on the Mac desktop, or else it takes over the screen and you use a hot key to switch the OS, I can't remember which.

Of course, you need plenty of RAM in order for this to work fast, because you've effectively got two computers sharing the same RAM. I wonder if they can set up VPC to take advantage of multiprocessor machines by using separate processors for Windows and MacOS?

Last edited:
Moonbear
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
dduardo said:
The iMacs also come with dual core intel processors.
And mine should be arriving tomorrow! (It was supposed to arrive today, but something got screwed up with FedEx...they claim they were here, but I was home today and nobody came, nor is there a notice on the door indicating I just didn't hear them :grumpy:) I'm usually the last person to try something new, but I've been thinking about getting myself an iMac for a while for home anyway, and decided I was finally going to buy it and saw the ones with the Intel processors were out when I went to place my order.

The potential downside, in the short term, is that some software that runs on the apple processors may not run with the Intel processor, but it was a short list, nothing I own, and they'll have inexpensive "universal" version upgrades out soon, so if anyone does own that software, you won't have to buy it all new for the Macs with the Intel processors (I think the upgrades were something like $20 if you already own the full version for Mac). I'll let you know if I'm crying and cursing out the computer after I get it. I spent today cleaning my home office out (moving the computer graveyard to the attic...I don't know why I can't just bring myself to get rid of the old, useless, worthless ones that don't even have enough hard drive space to install any current operating system) and getting everything organized so as soon as it arrives, I'll be able to plug it in and go (well, once I remember all my passwords on my airport network ). are you a mac person? Moonbear said: And mine should be arriving tomorrow! (It was supposed to arrive today, but something got screwed up with FedEx...they claim they were here, but I was home today and nobody came, nor is there a notice on the door indicating I just didn't hear them :grumpy:) I'm usually the last person to try something new, but I've been thinking about getting myself an iMac for a while for home anyway, and decided I was finally going to buy it and saw the ones with the Intel processors were out when I went to place my order. The potential downside, in the short term, is that some software that runs on the apple processors may not run with the Intel processor, but it was a short list, nothing I own, and they'll have inexpensive "universal" version upgrades out soon, so if anyone does own that software, you won't have to buy it all new for the Macs with the Intel processors (I think the upgrades were something like$20 if you already own the full version for Mac).
I'll let you know if I'm crying and cursing out the computer after I get it. I spent today cleaning my home office out (moving the computer graveyard to the attic...I don't know why I can't just bring myself to get rid of the old, useless, worthless ones that don't even have enough hard drive space to install any current operating system) and getting everything organized so as soon as it arrives, I'll be able to plug it in and go (well, once I remember all my passwords on my airport network ).
Because if not, there will be a transition period to get use to the different quirks that OS X has as opposed to Windows quirks.

Moonbear
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
rho said:
Hopefully we only have three days to wait until we finally get some decent mac laptops.
Why would you say that? I'm quite happy with my laptop. Or do you mean because they could possibly make them even smaller to really compete with the ultra-lightweight laptops? My understanding is that is part of the incentive behind going with the Intel processors, because not only can they run faster than the apple processors, but they are smaller, so slimmer cases can be used as they develop new computers that take further advantage of these processors.

Moonbear
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
ComputerGeek said:
Because if not, there will be a transition period to get use to the different quirks that OS X has as opposed to Windows quirks.
If not what? What part of my post were you responding to?

I'm already a Mac user, so I'm comfortable with OSX already. I have a harder time with Windows, because I use it so infrequently now that I forget where to find things (the lab has a PC running XP, but I try to avoid using it as much as possible because it seems to get a new virus every week...a combination of Windows vulnerability and far too many users who are too clueless to not open the emails containing viruses).

Moonbear said:
If not what? What part of my post were you responding to?
I'm already a Mac user, so I'm comfortable with OSX already. I have a harder time with Windows, because I use it so infrequently now that I forget where to find things (the lab has a PC running XP, but I try to avoid using it as much as possible because it seems to get a new virus every week...a combination of Windows vulnerability and far too many users who are too clueless to not open the emails containing viruses).
heh... I had the beginning of the post in the title section ...

Moonbear
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
ComputerGeek said:
heh... I had the beginning of the post in the title section ...
Oh...hee hee. I didn't even see the title. Guess I managed to answer your question anyway.

dduardo
Staff Emeritus
If you want a good deal for a mac you can get one here:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=318372&pfp=cat3 [Broken]

Last edited by a moderator:
Moonbear
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
dduardo said:
If you want a good deal for a mac you can get one here:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=318372&pfp=cat3 [Broken]
How are they managing to sell one with only 256 MB of RAM? That doesn't even exist on Apple's site.

Last edited by a moderator:
Moonbear
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
I got my new toy!!!! It's here! Only one annoying thing...I didn't realize that if you get the wireless keyboard and mouse, you don't get a mighty mouse...I guess those are only wired. :grumpy: I'm going to double check the specs to make sure they didn't shortchange me on the right mouse, but I probably just read it wrong assuming that I was getting a mighty mouse.

Oh, the other issue is that they really could have made the power cord a bit longer. Not everyone has conveniently placed outlets, and I don't like having to put the surge protector out so far from the wall since then you can see the ugly tangle of cords.

And if you get one...the back-up disks are hiding in the bottom of the box the mouse comes in...lift up all the little bits of cardboard in there, because it's not intuitive that there's more in there (I thought they forgot to pack them and was about to call and complain when one last dig through the packing material revealed them in that well-hidden location).

graphic7
Gold Member
Well, despite my utter disappointment that Apple will not be porting OpenFirmware to these x86 systems, I'm now on the pre-order list for a MacBook pro. Being a UNIX administrator, I sometimes find myself on the road needing a portable UNIX solution, like a laptop, and Apple is obviously the best route to go (I've been highly pleased with my Powerbook G4, whereas the next serious portable UNIX solution is from something like Tadpole and Naturetech and those notebooks with a proper configuration cost around $10k). What's comforting, though, is that these x86 systems will have Intel's EFI, which is somewhat like OpenFirmware (the only reason I came close to purchasing the MacBook Pro). EFI, in the future, will allow you to perhaps run Mac OS X and Windows side by side in a non-emulated environment, as all calls the OS makes is to EFI -- not to the hardware. So, you won't be seeing products that actually do emulation, like Virtual PC, you'll be seeing products that can use EFI from OS X to start a new OS instance to run Windows, for example. Last edited: graphic7 said: Well, despite my utter disappointment that Apple will not be porting OpenFirmware to these x86 systems, I'm now on the pre-order list for a MacBook pro. Being a UNIX administrator, I sometimes find myself on the road needing a portable UNIX solution, like a laptop, and Apple is obviously the best route to go (I've been highly pleased with my Powerbook G4, whereas the next serious portable UNIX solution is from something like Tadpole and Naturetech and those notebooks with a proper configuration cost around$10k).

What's comforting, though, is that these x86 systems will have Intel's EFI, which is somewhat like OpenFirmware (the only reason I came close to purchasing the MacBook Pro). EFI, in the future, will allow you to perhaps run Mac OS X and Windows side by side in a non-emulated environment, as all calls the OS makes is to EFI -- not to the hardware. So, you won't be seeing products that actually do emulation, like Virtual PC, you'll be seeing products that can use EFI from OS X to start a new OS instance to run Windows, for example.
Well... EFI is a work-a-like, and I am EXCITED that they are using a PC based solution rather than openFirmware... that means that the GFX card companies can not gouge the mac any longer.