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Magnetism and Magnetic wires

  1. May 3, 2014 #1
    Recently I've been interested in delving in deeper on the applications of magnetic wires.

    From this video, I was curious as to whether these wires (more specifically their enamel coating) were permanent magnets?

    Electricity and Magnetism Simple Electric Motor

    and if I use that magnetic wire as an electromagnet (I wrap it around an iron core) and I pass it through a permanent magnet's magnetic field, would that wire be also capable of conducting/ creating electricity, or would the enamel coating prevent that?

    I've been reading many interesting articles where some chemists are trying to make copper, silver and gold permanent magnets within themselves, by somehow structuring the electrons in a way (the same way the electrons are structured in honey, that defies the laws of thermodynamics) so that these elements (which are perfect for conducting electricity) could also then have the characteristics of permanent magnets in a metastable state. Honey's electrons are in this state, which prevents the honey from crystallizing, and thus the electrons aren't in their natural state in terms of thermal dynamics, and if these chemists somehow find a way to overcome this by finding a metastable state in which copper, silver, and gold act like permanent magnets and the electrons somehow maintain this position, would wires containing these elements still retain their efficiency in conducting electricity? I recommend you read the works of Dr. J.S. Garitaonandia

    and finally, just as a side question, how would some of you folks theorize the possibility of making gold copper and silver magnetic permanently in a metastable state, so that their electrons remain in that state?

    Applications for this that I have in mind are improving the efficiency of generators, by perhaps wrapping magnetic wires around permanent magnets (like neodymium magnets) to temporarily create powerful magnets that switch on and off in intervals (so that the stator/rotor may rotate more effectively with less power input necessary). Another possibility of this application is perhaps extending the efficiency and life of permanent magnets? What are your folks' thoughts about all of this?
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  2. jcsd
  3. May 3, 2014 #2


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    HI shushi boi
    welcome to PF :smile:
    no its not ... it nicknamed magnet wire because its commonly used for winding electromagnets

    its just plain everyday enamelled copper wire

    if you wrap it around an iron core and then pass a current through it you will make an electro magnet
    if you want to create a current just wrap many turns around a hollow plastic or cardboard tube and move a permanent bat magnet up and down inside the tube

    No, the enamel is just insulation ... it stops the wire from shorting out when wound in a coil

  4. May 3, 2014 #3
    Thank you Dave for your post! :)

    hmm, I thought the enamel coating was magnetic itself, well now that that's ruled out, now comes the other part of the question about the possibility of making electrical conductive materials into permanent magnets and how to keep their electrons in that metastable state. And the part if a permanent magnetic wire is created, would the efficiency for the wire to conduct electricity be lost at all, or a little?
  5. May 4, 2014 #4


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    The reason that magnet wire is special is that the enamel insulation is thinner than normal hookup wire. The difference in voltage between wires on successive windings on a transformer or inductor is low, so the insulation does not need to be thick. Thinner insulation lets you wind more turns in the transformer "window" area, which helps to meet the other transformer specifications (magnetizing inductance, etc.).

    There would be no advantage that I see to having the wire in an electromagnet made out of a ferrous material. I would suggest that you keep learning more about physics and magnetism, to help guide your brainstorming about how to optimize electromagnetic systems. Where are you in school right now?
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  6. May 4, 2014 #5

    I'm about to end my first year of college in a community college in arizona called AWC. The courses that I've taken so far are precalculus, I've taken electrical systems for automotive, chemistry, and I plan to get a bachelors in business of industrial technology at NAU. I plan to then go to the BMW STEP program at the Avondal campus of UTI and work as a technician for BMW north america (cool thing, my automotive professor at my college is the originator and founder of the BMW STEP program!) Afterwards, I plan to study at some universities, perhaps Binghamton University to study alternative fuel resources and the hydrogen economy, then I want to study at MIT and continue in physics, engineering, and perhaps study and research in their Sloan Automotive Laboratory. I'm not sure if I want to be affiliated with the Society of Automotive Engineers yet, but I definitely want to learn german and go to germany to work with the engineers over there to design engines, motors, and I really want to get involved with BMW's Hydrogen 7 vehicle and the development of it :) I like to study "free energy" or "perpetual motion" in my free time so that I could cock tail some neat and efficient designs, because I like to integrate efficiency efficiently.
  7. May 4, 2014 #6


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    that's going to get you into trouble really quickly ... stay away from woo woo science it wont take you anywhere good
    and be warned right now .... do not bring up such subjects here on the Physics Forums
    its against the rules of the forum because such subjects are just plain garbage

    as Berkeman said stick to and learn about real physics

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