Male-Female Strength/Wrestling Question

  • Thread starter hikepoet
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  • #151
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We can have a long debate on this but having some experience i think we both will agree that executing the technique in a dojo and doing the same on the street are two different things in the street fight a person might panic and that can mess up his technique so if you learn a specific throw or take down and start considering yourself toughest guy around sooner or later you will get your a** handed to you.


The issue you seem unable to grasp is that sportsmen have their techniques and physical preparation tested time and again in competition. It is the single most close event to a real fight (including a great deal of arousal and axiety)which you can have without actually training by going out and beating ppl day after day in the neighborhood. It gives you invaluable experience. And this is the reason why competitive fighters in boxing, judo, bjj, wrestlers, mt reign supreme on streets in unarmed combat. Between sparring and competition, they will get an experience in combat most humans only dream of. Self defense trained or not.

In practice what you have most of the time is ppl who says Uchi mata wont work, Kani Basami wont work , boxing sucks, that wont work, and then they get thrown on street on concrete, or get KOed by a boxer who only knows 4 techniques, jab , cross , hook and uppercut in 3 seconds, and the next thing they need is an ambulance:devil:
 
  • #152
308
0
Yes, self defense requires a certain state of mind. The state of mind in which you carry.

If you look at FBI's aggravated assault statistics for 2009 in USA you learn that 26.9% where executed unarmed, 20.9% with firearms, 18.7% with edged weapons and 33.5% with other weapons. (ofc, those stats are different in other countries, but still the vast majority of aggravated assault is perpetrated with a weapon). Those stats exclude any other assaults as murder and forcible rape.

So basically in a situation which requires SD you have over 73% probability to face an armed assault. So while any SD course using hand to hand combat will help you a bit, the best possible defense is to carry and be trained in proper use of a firearm.

IMO this it's a inescapable conclusion. We have to be realistic about it, any hand to hand system out there should only be used as a last resort. Its good to be trained in hand to hand, but its also very good not to depend on it

Indiana Jones was right:P


*pats Sig Sauer P229* Indeed. The thing is, advanced SD gives you more options than just, "run or shoot". If someone pulls a knife... that was a bad decision on their part, but if they have a club or stick... I'd hesitate to kill them. I wouldn't hesitate to give them a spiral fracture in several limbs however.

To me, it's all about options:
1.) RUN! Richard Pryor said it best: "Just RUN! Run run run!"
2.) De-escalate if possible, including complience
3.) You can buy time to draw a sidearm

It's a bit like knowing how to throw a knife... if you ever have to do it, you're probably in deep trouble. By the same token, if it's the last thing you can do, you might as well know howo to do it well.
 
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  • #153
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It's amazing how deep these internet conversations become

cant we all agree we're all smart and special

(rules edit) HellNo.


...Concise enough?


:wink: @ Lisab
 
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  • #154
308
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Why can't we all be smart and special, yet still want to have deep conversations?

Lack of wit, and the resources to make your point. Not a problem for you, but some may struggle... the poor dears. :devil:
 
  • #155
154
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The issue you seem unable to grasp is that sportsmen have their techniques and physical preparation tested time and again in competition. It is the single most close event to a real fight (including a great deal of arousal and axiety)which you can have without actually training by going out and beating ppl day after day in the neighborhood. It gives you invaluable experience. And this is the reason why competitive fighters in boxing, judo, bjj, wrestlers, mt reign supreme on streets in unarmed combat. Between sparring and competition, they will get an experience in combat most humans only dream of. Self defense trained or not.

In practice what you have most of the time is ppl who says Uchi mata wont work, Kani Basami wont work , boxing sucks, that wont work, and then they get thrown on street on concrete, or get KOed by a boxer who only knows 4 techniques, jab , cross , hook and uppercut in 3 seconds, and the next thing they need is an ambulance:devil:

I wasn't talking about sportsmen who have years and years of experience i was talking about people who don't have that much experience in the respective styles they just might hesitate to pull the trigger in a street fight.
 
  • #156
dlgoff
Science Advisor
Gold Member
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I'm sorry that I haven't followed this entire thread. So this might not be relevant. But here's my daughter sparing to receive her 3rd degree black belt back in 2009.

Yep. She kicked the larger girls butt.

attachment.php?attachmentid=32406&stc=1&d=1298320508.jpg
 

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  • #157
109
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I wasn't talking about sportsmen who have years and years of experience i was talking about

Good. What do you think, the ppl who don't have that much experience will ever be able to land properly a cross, one of the most basic and simple techniques out there ? Or they will have any meaningful power in it ? You said that they need to learn the techniques which are taught to military and law enforcement. What chance in hell have they to apply such a technique lacking experience ? Let me tell you. Close to 0. All they get is a false sense of security. Sure that you wont throw anyone after practicing 1 week. And as sure as hell, you'll still punch like a girl after 1 week of punching too :P Nor will you defeat anyone after being thought some of the techniques military personal or law enforcement uses. Simple because you need to learn how to apply them. And this requires sparring. Fighting practice.

Offense in unarmed combat is not so much about individual techniques, but about using movement to acquire a dominant angle of attack, a perturbation of the balance of the opponent, or to secure a dominate position on ground or in clinch , positions from which later you launch appropriate techniques for the specific situation such as striking attacks, throws or a joint locks or strangles. And sometimes this happens so fast than no more 5 seconds pass till one is out of combat. Sometimes not. There is much more to fighting then techniques. Bee-it simple techniques or more complex ones.

Truth is, for ppl with not much experience there is no silver lining. They **must** acquire experience. They have to train and spar and do it time and again, for many months before anything efficient comes out from them.

people who don't have that much experience in the respective styles they just might hesitate to pull the trigger in a street fight.

And where exactly do you see a link between unarmed combat experience in whatever "style", and the ability to use a firearm ? Please .... :devil:
 
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  • #158
109
1
I'm sorry that I haven't followed this entire thread. So this might not be relevant. But here's my daughter sparing to receive her 3rd degree black belt back in 2009.

Congratulations to her, man.
 
  • #159
308
0
I'm sorry that I haven't followed this entire thread. So this might not be relevant. But here's my daughter sparing to receive her 3rd degree black belt back in 2009.

Yep. She kicked the larger girls butt.

attachment.php?attachmentid=32406&stc=1&d=1298320508.jpg

Mazeltov!.. and good for you, supporting her in this.
 
  • #160
308
0
Good. What do you think, the ppl who don't have that much experience will ever be able to land properly a cross, one of the most basic and simple techniques out there ? Or they will have any meaningful power in it ? You said that they need to learn the techniques which are taught to military and law enforcement. What chance in hell have they to apply such a technique lacking experience ? Let me tell you. Close to 0. All they get is a false sense of security. Sure that you wont throw anyone after practicing 1 week. And as sure as hell, you'll still punch like a girl after 1 week of punching too :P Nor will you defeat anyone after being thought some of the techniques military personal or law enforcement uses. Simple because you need to learn how to apply them. And this requires sparring. Fighting practice.

Offense in unarmed combat is not so much about individual techniques, but about using movement to acquire a dominant angle of attack, a perturbation of the balance of the opponent, or to secure a dominate position on ground or in clinch , positions from which later you launch appropriate techniques for the specific situation such as striking attacks, throws or a joint locks or strangles. And sometimes this happens so fast than no more 5 seconds pass till one is out of combat. Sometimes not. There is much more to fighting then techniques. Bee-it simple techniques or more complex ones.

Truth is, for ppl with not much experience there is no silver lining. They **must** acquire experience. They have to train and spar and do it time and again, for many months before anything efficient comes out from them.



And where exactly do you see a link between unarmed combat experience in whatever "style", and the ability to use a firearm ? Please .... :devil:

I'd add... people hesitate to pull the REAL trigger too, or believe a gun can be used as a threat. A sidearm is something requiring skill to use in SD/HD, unless you want to die. Or, as the bat-poop crazy counselor from South Africa told me when I was 12, "If you're not Mozambiqueing your target, you're a <BLEEEEEP>." Funny guy, really out of his mind, but I never forgot his lessons.
 
  • #161
109
1
. Or, as the bat-poop crazy counselor from South Africa told me when I was 12, "If you're not Mozambiqueing your target, you're a <BLEEEEEP>." Funny guy, really out of his mind, but I never forgot his lessons.

That shrink had beautiful and meaningful conversations with a 12yo I see.
 
  • #162
154
0
punch like a girl
Says a guy who argued with me about GIRL POWER on the same thread:rofl:
and did you forgot about the video that i posted? i smell sexism here:rofl:
Who has a short memory now???:rofl:


And where exactly do you see a link between unarmed combat experience in whatever "style", and the ability to use a firearm ? Please .... :devil
complete misunderstanding by pulling the trigger i meant executing the technique a figure of speech you know.
 
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  • #163
lisab
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
1,955
617
No.


...Concise enough?

Actually, it's too concise. There's a 4-character minimum rule to post. :tongue2:
 
  • #164
308
0
That shrink had beautiful and meaningful conversations with a 12yo I see.

:rofl:

Oh god... Dan... I fell off my chair! I just "rofl'ed" for the first time in MY LIFE... oK, second, but that time was 15 years ago.

CAMP COUNSELOR... and this may be a language thing... are not 'shrinks', it's just a US term for the people who oversee summer/day campers. It's actually very similar to a system of senpai (Counselors in training), and sensei (Counselors) with the students being the campers. So, in this case he was the head of riflery and archery... he was also the guy who introduced me to shooting skeet... and let me fire his 'private stash'. The guy had a (full-size) Uzi that he thankfully didn't allow us to us. Those who excelled were taken aside for skeet shooting, and some burst-work with a Kalashnikov... I still have one of the shell casings.

In retrospect, I'm probably lucky to be alive... on the other hand, he was amazingly kind and really supported people with a talent he recognized. That he did so against virtually every law on the books didn't seem to faze him for a second.
 
  • #166
NBWrestler
As a high school Junior, wrestling for my school team, I wrestled two different girls, getting pinned both times. At the 145 weight class, I'd like to think I was stronger than either of them, but their skill level was incredible. Cindy (thefirst girl who pinned me) finished me off in only 20 seconds, while the 2nd. girl built up an impressive leasd on points before pinning me in the second period.
 
  • #167
869
4
I wrestled in high school, and there was always the occasional female wrestler at tournaments and such. It was awful. It just caused such issues and most of the guys felt bad wrestling them.

I remember one controversial time when a guy forfeit his match (this was in a national tournament) because he didn't feel right wrestling against a girl. She was really mad about it, saying that she couldn't get any real respect as a wrestler. I don't blame her, but at the same time a large portion of her wins were forfeits.
 

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