What is the relationship between torque and net forces in a rotating system?

In summary, the torque about the center of mass is zero, but the torque about any point not in the line of action is still there.
  • #1
Fibo112
149
3

Homework Statement


A man of Mass M stands on a railroad car that is rounding an unbanked turn of radius R at speed v. His center of mass is height L above the car, and his feet are distance d apart. The man is facing the direction of motion. How much weight is on each of his feet.

Homework Equations


I have solved the problem too ensure that the torque about the center of mass is zero. What I don't understand is why the torque about the center of mass being zero ensures that the torque about any point is zero. I know that this is the case if there are no net forces acting, but that isn't the case here.

The Attempt at a Solution

 
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  • #2
Fibo112 said:
why the torque about the center of mass being zero ensures that the torque about any point is zero.
Suppose there is no net moment about some point: ##\Sigma \vec {F_i}\times\vec {r_i}=0##.
Consider an axis at vectorial position ##-\vec a## from the first. The sum of moments about that point is ##\Sigma \vec {F_i}\times(\vec {r_i}+\vec a)=\Sigma \vec {F_i}\times\vec {r_i}+\Sigma \vec {F_i}\times\vec a =(\Sigma \vec {F_i})\times\vec a##.
So if there is no net force then the sum of moments is the same everywhere.
 
  • #3
If there was a nonzero torque around a certain point, you would see the man spinning (accelerating) about that point.
 
  • #4
haruspex said:
Suppose there is no net moment about some point: ##\Sigma \vec {F_i}\times\vec {r_i}=0##.
Consider an axis at vectorial position ##-\vec a## from the first. The sum of moments about that point is ##\Sigma \vec {F_i}\times(\vec {r_i}+\vec a)=\Sigma \vec {F_i}\times\vec {r_i}+\Sigma \vec {F_i}\times\vec a =(\Sigma \vec {F_i})\times\vec a##.
So if there is no net force then the sum of moments is the same everywhere.
But there is a net force isn't there?
 
  • #5
Fibo112 said:
But there is a net force isn't there?
Good point.
There is a net force through the man's mass centre, providing the centripetal acceleration.
That does not have any moment about the mass centre, so there is no net torque about that point. But there is a net torque about points not in that line of action.
Say the train is curving to the left. The net force acts to the left. Taking moments about a point between his feet, there is an anticlockwise torque.
Consider the centre of arc of the curve his feet are following. The man has angular momentum about that point. Because his mass centre is above the point, that angular momentum vector is not vertical. The torque produces precession, just like a gyroscope. The angular momentum vector changes direction as the man follows the curve.
 

What is the "Man on a railroad car" experiment?

The "Man on a railroad car" experiment is a thought experiment developed by physicist Albert Einstein to explain the principles of relativity. It involves a man standing on a train moving at a constant velocity and throwing a ball straight up into the air.

What is the significance of this experiment?

This experiment is significant because it helps to illustrate the principles of relativity, specifically the idea that the laws of physics are the same for all observers in uniform motion. It also highlights the concept of relative motion and how it affects the perception of time and space.

How does this experiment relate to Einstein's theory of relativity?

The "Man on a railroad car" experiment is a simplified version of the thought experiments that Einstein used to develop his theory of relativity. It demonstrates the principles of special relativity, specifically the idea that the laws of physics are the same for all observers in uniform motion.

What other concepts does this experiment help to explain?

In addition to relativity, the "Man on a railroad car" experiment also helps to explain the concepts of time dilation and length contraction. It shows how these phenomena occur due to the relative motion between observers.

Are there any real-life applications of this experiment?

The principles illustrated in the "Man on a railroad car" experiment have real-life applications in fields such as aerospace engineering and GPS technology. They are also important in understanding the behavior of particles in high-speed collisions and in developing theories of the universe.

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