Are the Lagrangians in Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Equivalent Without Lorentz Gauge?

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In summary, the conversation discusses showing that two Lagrangians represent the same equation by using the product rule and factoring out \partial_\nu. The question is whether this can be done without using the Lorentz gauge and it is unknown if this is possible.
  • #1
jdstokes
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[SOLVED] Mandl and Shaw 5.1

To show

[itex]-\frac{1}{2}F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu} - \frac{1}{2}(\partial_\mu A^\mu)^2 \quad \mathrm{and} \quad -\frac{1}{2}\partial_\nu A_\mu \partial^\nu A^\mu[/itex]

represent the same Lagrangian it suffices to show that

[itex]\partial_\nu A_\mu\partial^\mu A^\nu - \partial_\nu A^\nu \partial_\mu A^\mu[/itex] is at most a 4-divergence.

The trouble is, I have no idea why this would be the case. Is this a matter of utilizing the product rule in some clever way?

Edit: Yes it is: factor out [itex]\partial_\nu[/itex].
 
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  • #2


hi
does anybody have any suggestion to solve 2.4 too?!
 
  • #3


jdstokes said:
To show

[itex]-\frac{1}{2}F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu} - \frac{1}{2}(\partial_\mu A^\mu)^2 \quad \mathrm{and} \quad -\frac{1}{2}\partial_\nu A_\mu \partial^\nu A^\mu[/itex]

represent the same Lagrangian it suffices to show that

[itex]\partial_\nu A_\mu\partial^\mu A^\nu - \partial_\nu A^\nu \partial_\mu A^\mu[/itex] is at most a 4-divergence.

The trouble is, I have no idea why this would be the case. Is this a matter of utilizing the product rule in some clever way?

Edit: Yes it is: factor out [itex]\partial_\nu[/itex].

Can this be done without using the Lorentz gauge ([itex]\partial_\mu A^\mu = 0[/itex]) or is it necessary imposed ?
 

What is the Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Lagrangian?

The Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Lagrangian is a mathematical formulation used in classical mechanics to describe the dynamics of a system. It is named after physicists Franz Mandl and Graham Shaw, who introduced it in their book "Quantum Field Theory".

How is the Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Lagrangian used?

This Lagrangian is used to determine the equations of motion for a system by minimizing the action integral, which is a measure of the system's dynamics. It is a powerful tool for solving problems in classical mechanics, as it allows for a more systematic and elegant approach compared to other methods.

What are the advantages of using the Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Lagrangian?

One of the main advantages of using this Lagrangian is that it provides a unified approach to solving problems in classical mechanics. It is applicable to a wide range of systems and allows for the inclusion of various physical constraints. Additionally, it simplifies the equations of motion and can lead to more intuitive solutions.

Can the Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Lagrangian be applied to quantum systems?

No, the Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Lagrangian is specifically designed for classical systems and cannot be used for quantum systems. However, it can serve as a useful tool for understanding the behavior of quantum systems in certain cases, such as when the systems are in the classical limit.

Are there any limitations to using the Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Lagrangian?

Like any other mathematical formulation, the Mandl & Shaw 5.1 Lagrangian has its limitations. It may not be suitable for all types of systems, and in some cases, it may be more complex to use than other methods. It also assumes that the system is conservative, which may not always be the case in real-world scenarios.

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