Many neutrinos are traveling through the earth

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical estimation of the number of neutrinos traveling through the Earth, particularly focusing on the flux of neutrinos through a specified area. Participants explore the implications of neutrino mass, their sources, and the differences in flux from various origins.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the theoretical number of neutrinos passing through a 1 m x 1 m area on Earth, seeking a general order of magnitude rather than a precise figure.
  • Another participant estimates the number density of neutrinos to be around 150 per cubic centimeter, leading to a calculation of approximately 5.9 x 1014 neutrinos crossing a one-meter square area per second.
  • A participant expresses appreciation for the detailed response regarding neutrino flux calculations.
  • Discussion includes theoretical considerations about neutrino mass, suggesting that it could be calculated based on the difference between force and anti-force in a field obeying the Inverse Square Law.
  • Another participant discusses various theoretical approaches to assigning mass to neutrinos, including Dirac and Majorana mass terms, and mentions the seesaw mechanism as a way to explain small neutrino masses.
  • A later reply questions the directional nature of cosmic neutrino flux, suggesting that it may not have a specific direction due to thermal equilibrium, and posits that solar neutrinos may dominate the flux through any surface on Earth.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sources and characteristics of neutrino flux, particularly regarding cosmic versus solar neutrinos, and there is no consensus on the implications of these differences.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss theoretical models and calculations that depend on various assumptions about neutrino properties, including mass and flux directionality. The discussion does not resolve the complexities surrounding these assumptions.

Zaphodx57x
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I'm a newb so forgive me if this question is ridiculous. In theory(cuz we have no idea of really knowing) how many neutrinos are traveling through the Earth at any given time. Or better yet, how many are traveling through let's say a 1 m x 1m square in any arbitrary position on earth. I'm not really looking for a number, but maybe a general order of magnitude. Like are neutrinos coming from all over the universe and passing through us or are they relatively rare?
 
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The number density of each neutrino species is theorized to be about 56 per cubic centimeter, for a total number density of around 150 neutrinos per cubic centimeter.

Given that the upper limit on their mass is ~3 eV and their characteristic temperature now is about 2 K, you can calculate their average velocity.

The average kinetic energy per particle is E = \frac{3}{2}kT, where T is the temperature and k is Boltzmann's constant. For a temperature of 2 K, the neutrinos have an average kinetic energy of 4.1419509 x 10-23 J.

The velocity at which a particle of mass m_0 will have energy E is given by:

E = (\gamma - 1) \, m_0 c^2

where

\gamma \equiv \frac{1}{\sqrt{1 - v^2/c^2}}

Plugging and chugging gives us an average velocity of about 0.01 c.

The number of particles crossing a 1 m2 plane is just the number density (in #/m^3) times the velocity (in m/s). There are 150,000,000 neutrinos per cubic meter, and they're moving at about 3,935,435.55 meters per second, for a grand total of 5.90315332 * 1014 crossing a one-meter square area per second. Quite a lot!

- Warren
 
Wow, thank you for that. I could never have expected such a perfect response.
 
Welcome to physicsforums, Zaphod. Don't forget your towel!

- Warren
 
Given that the upper limit on their mass is ~3 eV

Given that particles are fields and that each field consists of a force and an anti-force. Then in any field obeying the Inverse Square Law there must be a difference between the total force and anti-force acting on any given radii. This difference is the neutrino mass and can in theory be calculated. It arises because it is what remains when the force field is removed. Just as infinity has a minimum energy level so also do particles have a minimum energy level it stands out from the background level only because of its greater density.
In Cassels Laws os Nature the author gives a list of theoretical neutrino masses.
 
There are several ways to give the neutrino a mass, all of them go beyond the standard model.

You can add adhoc Dirac terms to your electroweak lagrangian, but you're stuck in the sense that you have to couple it to a higgs field, and without knowledge about the VeV (from say a scalar higgs), you don't even know what type of suppression factor you need to write in by hand, much less explain why it has to be so finely tuned and unnatural.

Typically, there is a theoretical prejudice to adding a Majorana Mass, since its neater. The usual natural theories that output such a mass is say SO(10), the simplest is when you live in a 16 dimensional representation, and you have a remaining singlet field (called sterile). You can identify the right handed neutrino as the single set of dimension 5 operators. Moreover, it will undergo the seesaw mechanism, which naturally gives it a small mass relative to electroweak symmetry breaking scale.

In SUSY models, you can do even better, though of course the amount of free parameters in the theory starts growing.
 
chroot: as far as I understand you did calculate the flux of cosmic background neutrinos.

But I think this flux does not have a specific direction though any surface on Earth because the cosmic neutrinos are in thermal equilibrium. Thus same amount of neutrinos crossing in one direction will cross in the other direction.

Anyway, I assume (I do not really know) this is negligible against the flux of solar neutrinos crossing any surface on earth. Isn't it?

Regards.
 

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