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Mars Exploration-is Human Settlement Possible?

  1. Apr 8, 2004 #1
    Two independent groups have recently claimed to detect methane on the Mars, one source has used the Mars Express Orbiter, and the other root had deployed the ground-based telescopes. I am of the strong opinion that Mars should definitely possess some percentage of methane because it is such a gas that is emitted by living organisms apart from other causes.

    In case of Mars, there are Martian microbes, and the probes shall soon get their proof that they did exist and still exist for which I hold a strong feeling.

    So far methane is concerned, it cannot last long in its present atmosphere since methane is a molecule that lacks stability in the present conditions. The life of Methane is quite short on Mars, it may hardly stay energetic more than a few hundred years at a stretch and then it shall automatically vanish. The other reason for the existence of methane is that the Martian volcanic activities also help to produce this gas but it can definitely be renewed with time, either by biological processes or by volcanic vents, depending on our capability how probing instruments can re-act on Mars.

    I would like to say something about the lava. It is deposited or released under the soil, and it can help produce this gas because active volcanoes are one of the main reasons for producing methane and the heat released by it can melt the vast area of ice of the soil hidden underneath and water can start flowing again, it is a strong possibility which I can visualize.

    President Bush is going to approve a multi billion dollar research program for the NASA to enable them to terra-form the present Martian atmosphere to bring at par with that of the Earth so that Mars could turn to be our next home in spite of the fact that the pressure of the Martian atmosphere is very low, say about one-hundredth of that of the Earth. Hence it is not possible for the human being to live there so early as taken as granted by the scientists.

    The volume of methane can be developed at a higher scale by future scientific processes. It is important from the point of view of existence of life on Mars. In my opinion, it is a good game, a sporting attempt but I also feel that it shall not be possible for us to change the Martian atmosphere so easily. It is nature’s job and not of the humans, rest NASA is the better judge.

    I can say this is a human dream which shall take a long time, a very long time to fulfill, may take a billion years and by then the Martian atmosphere is likely to become suitable for all classes of species. Will the Earth survive till then; the humans will eat the Earth resources very soon and make the Earth so hot that all will be roasted and the dream of ascending on the Mars may remain only a dream till the human being improves his behavior and determines to save the earth.

    The growth of the world population is exponential. The statistical data reveals that in the last two hundred years the population has grown by 1.9% per year, which means that the world population doubles every 40 years. Similar is the rate of consumption of electricity, which is the by-product of the rapid growth of population. With this rate, within 1000 years from now, the world’s population will first eat the civilization of which man is always proud. It would then make every human enemy and they would hate each other for want of adequate space to live or move about. Further more, the use of electricity will make the Earth so hot that it along with its life thereon may extinct unless some miracle happens to change the human behavior to save our planet.

    Solar System is our lifeline. Our planets like Mars, Mercury, Earth and Venus all are terrestrial. In fact, there are billions of such planets in other circuits and the shifting is going on from one circuit to another. (There are seven circuits in total from Close Circuit to Free Circuit). Here the main issue is which planet has the water, Earth is the only one that we know where the water exists and makes the life possible and running around. There are also high-density planets having more gases than masses like Jupiter, Saturn, Pluto, Neptune and Uranus. They do possess methane and ammonia with a small amount of water in the form of ice under and above their surface.

    On the Earth, there are organisms called methanogens, and these are the microbes that produce methane from hydrogen and carbon dioxide. As per scientific law, these organisms do not require oxygen to bloom and flourish. So far the life on Mars is concerned, it is getting ready to accommodate life after its temperature and environment become rightly suitable and friendly to accept this change.

    A telescope based on the Earth by instruments on board the European Space Agency’s orbiting Mars Express craft has confirmed the existence of methane on Mars. There are two apparent sources first is the volcanoes and the second is microbes. I am sure that Martian microbes are very much there under the soil of Mars and also around the old lakes and water reservoirs, and some would be found between the layers of rocks which are sliced in irregular sharp racking shapes due to continuous flow of water, particularly if it is salty or mineral, apart from volcanoes re-actions.

    I have no doubt that methane does exist on Mars but its life is always short, it disappears and reappears after an interval. Though apparently there may not look to have found any active volcanoes by the researchers, I am sure that there are such volcanism and they do operate on Mars and that would ultimately help melt the frozen ice underneath its vast surfaced area and that’s what favors the existence of present life of microbes and future life of human being.

    In the end, I would like to reiterate as I gave in my last book “Two Big Bangs Created the Universe” (Formed in Eternal Space) that there may not have exited on Mars oceans like Earth’s, there could be big reservoirs of water on Mars, maximum you can put them under the class of seas from your side, but not standard Earth size seas or oceans on Mars though big lakes and water reservoirs were definite in the past and may eventually be transformed to produce them again but not seas and oceans of the Earth standard. You can also refer to the story titled METHANE EXISTS IN MARS BUT NOT SALTY OCEANS AS CLAIMED? www.internationalreporter.net which starts with...Two independent groups have recently claimed to detect methane on the Mars, one source has used the Mars Express Orbiter, and the other root had deployed the ground-based telescopes. I am of the strong opinion that Mars should definitely possess some percentage of methane because it is such a gas that is emitted by living organisms apart from other causes. (Head line of the caption changed on mass request)......


    A good attempt, a good game and it looks fine to watch, it is Man vs The Creator, still we can't ignore the law of cosmology on one hand and His blessings on the other, which He has provided to the human being in the advancement of science and technology to enable him to adjust the planets to his needs, and Mars is the one that we need urgently now. How to accelerate the change of atmosphere on MARS, we need inspiration from God to give us the clue to succeed in our mission. I am sure that NASA's efforts are likely to suceed in due course and the world is looking at them to break some good news about MARS.






    Dr. Raj Baldev
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 9, 2004 #2
    Dear Dr. Raj Baldev,
    With all profound regards I hereby submit that our approach to the theory is scintillating and mesmerizing…Indeed it’s an eye opener to the scientific community and the world.. U certainly give an insight to Layman and a researcher as well to use his/her aboriginal mind instead following the old prevailing and traditional theories.

    We sincerely look forward from a Cosmo-theorist of your caliber to shed light on the history of water and its prospects in future on Mars in the interest of forum members.

    With regards

    Manu
     
  4. May 18, 2004 #3
    Nice Deduction...

    Nice to see you are paying attention (whilst most Scientists look away in disgust and arrogance).

    Methane IS A BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCED GAS on Mars. I'm going to keep screaming it from the hilltops until somebody "offs me".
    There are NO other possible sources for regenerating Methane in the Martian atmosphere. None. No comets, no volcanoes, no nuthin...

    Get used to it people.
     
  5. May 18, 2004 #4
    Viking 2 Lander Methane Detection on Mars (Buried for 27 Years)

    The following passage comes from page 190 of the book “Mars At Last!” by Mark Washburn, 1977.

    “Around JPL, there were rumours that methane had been found in the Martian atmosphere – a biologically produced gas. ‘The CIA is not involved in this,’ said Tobey Owen. ‘We didn’t see any methane.’”
    Well, they not only measured the methane, they BURIED the results.
    Denials that lasted 27 years, doesn’t make the truth any easier for “Scientists” who proclaim they seek truth.

    Jim Martin (Viking Project Leader) was on the payroll of the CIA.
    Coincidence?.
     
  6. May 28, 2004 #5

    why wouldn't there be methane production in the martian crust, soil, whatever?
    all you need is some source of hydrogen, carbon dioxide (plenty on mars), and some iron and/or nickel

    here check these out, we can't go jumping to conclusions:
    http://www.ornl.gov/info/reporter/no9/labnotes.htm

    http://people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/usgs.html

    http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Mars_methane.html

    and the last one says that they aren't sure if what they were detecting was actually methane
     
  7. Jun 3, 2004 #6
    also is a large scale pressurised complex on mars benificial? would mars itself be fully benificial if earth died off? is there oil and the like on mars? would we have to comepletely change lifestyle? though im sure if earth was to be destroyed all would, its just a generalised question
     
  8. Jun 4, 2004 #7
    it's not just a question of atmosphere

    there is also the matter of gravity - 1/3 gravity to be exact

    so humans born on mars would develope into physiological freaks - extreme ectomorphs
    (abmormally tall and thin) and unable to withstand Earth's gravity, since their bones would break under the force of their own weight

    so martian born humans would never be able to visit the mother planet
    and they would not be a pretty sight in any case

    humans have evolved in a 1 g environment

    which means we must remain in a 1 g environment FOREVER
    or face repulsive and even crippling physiological changes long term

    if humans want to live in space "long term" then they must do so in artificial 1 g environments (spinning space colonies)

    if martian colonists got into trouble, what would they do?
    the Earth would be 81 to 577 days away by the fastest current propulsion (8000 m/s) with earth being
    56 million km distant on a good day, and 399 million km on a bad day
    (and you know the catastrophy would happen on a bad day)

    the moon is a nice convenient place to visit, being right at our doorstep by astronomical standards, and still humans cannot colonize the moon for the same reason - 1/6 gravity

    a human born and raised on the moon would not be recognizable as human
    it may not even survive beyond the first year, and would definately never be able to set foot on the earth

    Star Trek depicts the 24th century moon as having a population of 1 Million
    however you should remember that Star Trek is built on theoretical technologies - warp drive, replicators, graviton fields used as antigravity and tractor beams - so the crew of the Enterprise are able to live in a
    1 g environment due to an artificial gravty provided by a graviton field generator

    and the lunar colonists also would be using this same graviton field technology
    (which does not exist) to live in a 1 g environment on the moon

    if you take away the fantasy technology - we are left with no possilbility of long term space colonization - except for spinning space stations and twin earth planets (venus for example) but terraforming venus would not be an easy job - and even if it were accomplished, all resources needed by it's colonists would have to be brought there from earth

    so why bother?

    why not just build rotating space colonies, which would be much more practical (since we could put them wherever we want) and and much more livable, since they would have 1g gravity at the outer perimeter
    (gravity would lessen with proximity to centre mass - being 0 g at the centre)

    the bigger the station, the slower the rotation speed, which would prevent the nauseous centrifugal effect of a fast rotating station
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2004
  9. Jun 4, 2004 #8
    Freakish and ugly by your standards, but why should a Mars-born human care what an Earther thinks?


    That might be a sacrifice people are willing to make. Many European immigrants came to the "New World" knowing it would be impossible to ever return to their homelands.


    Although a person born and raised in a low-G environment would probably have extreme difficulty adapting to Earth gravity, what medical evidence suggests that the person could not live a healthy life in low-G indefinitely? The effect of a low-G environment on the birth and development of an infant remains to be seen.

    Why do you believe that space colonization implies that human colonists must remain physically identical to Earth humans? Why must colonists necessarily be able to return to Earth? Space is an environment vastly different from our own, and we will have to adapt ourselves if we are to survive out there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2004
  10. Jun 6, 2004 #9
    also what i think we ought to do is, Yes. build space colonies. For many reasons but among others, we would not have to worry about airpollution - for it would all be automattically cleaned. Also i would suggest making the various planets a a "Mining Source." Also i predict that by the time commercial space stations are available it would be very possible to remote control robots and the like to do the mining for us.
     
  11. Jun 6, 2004 #10
    Why Methane on Mars MUST Be Biologically-Produced

    Posted by shrumeo;
    “why wouldn't there be methane production in the martian crust, soil, whatever?
    all you need is some source of hydrogen, carbon dioxide (plenty on mars), and some iron and/or nickel.”

    Here’s why;
    Previous Physics Forum discussions regarding Methane on present-day Mars;
    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=17811
    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=16426
    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=17348
    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=26184
     
  12. Jun 7, 2004 #11
    ok
    current life on mars is a fact.

    there is at this time proof beyond any doubt, and a map is being made, showing distribution of methane and other biological byproducts in the martian atmosphere.

    iv know this for over 10 weeks.
    but for some strange reason , it wont be public until the map is complete.
    im sure its either gonna be released at the end of the month, or in september.
    thats was the 2 possible dates given.

    i could be wrong on the dates , but iv seen the data to prove it, im just waiting like everybody else to see the full map. :wink:
     
  13. Jun 7, 2004 #12
    Waiting For That "Moment"

    dawhitedwa wrote;

    “ok
    current life on mars is a fact.

    there is at this time proof beyond any doubt, and a map is being made, showing distribution of methane and other biological byproducts in the martian atmosphere.

    iv know this for over 10 weeks.
    but for some strange reason , it wont be public until the map is complete.
    im sure its either gonna be released at the end of the month, or in september.
    thats was the 2 possible dates given.

    i could be wrong on the dates , but iv seen the data to prove it, im just waiting like everybody else to see the full map.”

    I agree with you 100% on life existing on Mars TODAY (and Methane, being the sure signature of such proof). I have been preaching the merits of Methane on Mars for a decade now (since I found evidence of the CIA being involved in the cover-up of such proof from the Viking 2 Lander experiments). I too KNOW of the plan to "introduce" the public to this ground-shaking information (however, I have not heard of any "map").

    dawhitedwa, wanna share with me privately what you know?
    I've done a lot of work on this subject, and would hate to be left out in the cold (right at the end of the saga...)
     
  14. Jun 7, 2004 #13
    wasnt just methane.
    ammonia , benzene , formaldehyde , all have been detected.

    i believe it was a dr. vittorio formisano that was making/overseeing the map
    some data was leaked onto the web, try a search under his name.

    i cant help you with actual data , i seen a small part, and it wasnt intended for my eyes, but there is stuff on the web , some true, some not.

    but any inteligent being could see through the trash.
    sorry i cant be of more help , hope this is enought info to get you started.
     
  15. Jun 8, 2004 #14
  16. Jun 8, 2004 #15
    i think we ought to figure out about the life living on THIS planet before we invest too much on others...
     
  17. Jun 8, 2004 #16
    Point Taken...

    I thoroughly agree sunshine.

    I would put the average human intelligence somewhere between primordial slime and a lemming…
     
  18. Jun 8, 2004 #17
    they said they were LOOKING for these, not that they had found them, maybe the info was out of date, if they did indeed find these, i just haven't seen it

    methane COULD be made by microbes, but:

    "There is also methane beneath the Earth's crust that is left over from the formation of hydrocarbons. This old methane is routinely spewed out of mud volcanoes, vents, and bubbling pools, or it slowly seeps out of fissures in Earth's crust."
    from: http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Mars_methane.html

    before anyone says that hydrocarbons are formed by decomposing dinosaurs :smile:
    "THEY" now think it comes from molten carbonates, which could be plentiful on mars since there is plenty of C02 and at one time plenty of liquid water.
     
  19. Jun 9, 2004 #18
    they have been found , and it seems like things are being played down.
    and a friend just told me than theres more methane than what they stated in that link.
    and he knows what he's talking about.
    i have more interest in other matters atm , but i think i will start taking an intesrest now.
    iv now seen 5 statements, all apparently from dr vitt , all tell a different story.
    looks like most are lies, so im going to try get something a little more....official.
    if i get anything, il post it.

    but i wouldnt hold my breath on this one.
     
  20. Jun 10, 2004 #19
    I'm Searching (For More) As Well

    dawhitedwa;

    I would be VERY interested in anything you find.

    You were spot on the mark with your other info...

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2004
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