Martial arts and the sixth sense

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Hi everyone. I've heard that martial artists can somehow foresee an event before it actually happens. There is a test in which the student kneels, and the teacher behind him strikes with a sword, and so the student must avoid the strike by rolling. According to the people that have passed this test, it is impossible to feel the movement of the sword with the ordinary senses because of the great speed, but they rather "sense" a great fear of being killed and then they react. Do you have any insights on how this can be done? If there is no time for them to react, how can they "know" that they have to roll over? In terms of physics, how can one interact with an environment so quickly? Thanks in advance.
 
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Maybe the people who didnt pass the test cannot say otherwise because they are dead?
 

Pengwuino

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Gold Barz said:
Maybe the people who didnt pass the test cannot say otherwise because they are dead?
ahahahah thats what i was about to say
 
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jejeje Actually the people who don't pass the test are not dead, just get a bruise on the shoulder or the head because it is a wooden sword called "shinai".
 

Pengwuino

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aha dang, there goes the simple answer!
 

Ivan Seeking

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cursa said:
Hi everyone. I've heard that martial artists can somehow foresee an event before it actually happens. There is a test in which the student kneels, and the teacher behind him strikes with a sword, and so the student must avoid the strike by rolling. According to the people that have passed this test, it is impossible to feel the movement of the sword with the ordinary senses because of the great speed, but they rather "sense" a great fear of being killed and then they react. Do you have any insights on how this can be done? If there is no time for them to react, how can they "know" that they have to roll over? In terms of physics, how can one interact with an environment so quickly? Thanks in advance.
They probably learn to pick up subtle clues - sound, most likely, but also perhaps shadows, or even vibrations in the floor, I suppose.
 
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cursa said:
Do you have any insights on how this can be done? If there is no time for them to react, how can they "know" that they have to roll over? In terms of physics, how can one interact with an environment so quickly? Thanks in advance.
My pet notion about things like this is that people may well be able to sense electric fields. In the right state of mind, calm, they might be able to process the vague sensation into a usefull reaction, in this case, an emotion.

You may have heard about "seizure dogs" who appear to be able to sense when someone is going to have a seizure, even before that person experiences their own aura. This strongly suggests that the dog can somehow sense changes in whatever electric field may emanate from a person.

I suppose if a dog can do it, then a person might also be able to do it. So, I speculate that what the person about to be hit senses is the change in the electric field of the person about to strike that results from their final decision to go through with the blow.
 
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I've studied martial arts for a number of years and I can say there is no magic to avoiding the sword. I'm very skeptical.

Here is my reasoning:

First, the students and masters can train constantly. They can develop a rhythm like dancers and move in a pre-determined way. Martial art forms capitalize on learning patterns and rhytms.

Second, everyone has a "tell" that advertise their movements loudly.

Third, can anyone put this experiment to some scientific rigor. Can we eliminate "luck", is there a causal relationship between striker and and strikee.

Most martial arts demonstrations are smoke and mirrors. For example, it takes little skill to break a piece of wood. You can be taught in less than five minutes.
 
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H-bar None said:
Second, everyone has a "tell" that advertise their movements loudly.
Can you expand on this? This sounds like what the person about to be struck must be sensing, then.
 

Chronos

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I vote with Ivan, it's called cueing. This phenomenon has been well documented in ESP hoaxes.
 
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Thank you very much for your responses. This martial art is called Ninjutsu and it is very different from other martial arts because there are no predetermined forms, rather we learn to respond intuitively. Also, the test I mentioned can only be performed by people who have been training for many years, and the person who strikes with the sword can only be the Grand Master. I've been told that during this test, the Grand Master not only strikes with the wooden sword, but must also have the intention to hurt, to think of the student as an enemy.
 
cursa said:
Thank you very much for your responses. This martial art is called Ninjutsu and it is very different from other martial arts because there are no predetermined forms, rather we learn to respond intuitively. Also, the test I mentioned can only be performed by people who have been training for many years, and the person who strikes with the sword can only be the Grand Master. I've been told that during this test, the Grand Master not only strikes with the wooden sword, but must also have the intention to hurt, to think of the student as an enemy.
From what i understand what you said, I think that Grand Master might be crazy.
 
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FredGarvin

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Along the lines of what H-Bar mentioned, I too have studied for more than a few years. In Aikido, we work at developing awareness. That however is not anything magical or mystical. The development comes in being able to still your mind and just not let the outside world distract you. It is difficult. I don't think I know of anyone who says that they have mastered that aspect. It is a thing you continually strive for.

Personally, whenever I see or read things like this, I think scam automatically. The martial arts world is full of them. There are a lot of people who will do/say anything in an effort to set themselves or their ryu apart from everyone else, to make them look special.

Also, anyone who calls themselves "master" or "grand master" immediately makes me suspicious.

There's my two cents worth.
 
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FredGarvin said:
Personally, whenever I see or read things like this, I think scam automatically. The martial arts world is full of them.
Recently I saw a show about a guy who claimed he could stop people's hearts with a special nerve pinch.

He did a carefully controlled demo, and they had the subject hooked up to a portable EKG when he did it. According to that he did actually flatline, untill the guy revived him.

Ever heard of this? It was completely new to me and I didn't really know what to make of it.
 

FredGarvin

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zoobyshoe said:
Recently I saw a show about a guy who claimed he could stop people's hearts with a special nerve pinch.

He did a carefully controlled demo, and they had the subject hooked up to a portable EKG when he did it. According to that he did actually flatline, untill the guy revived him.

Ever heard of this? It was completely new to me and I didn't really know what to make of it.
No. I haven't. But then again, I tend to shy away from martial arts foklore. That sounds surprisingly like "Bruce Lee could rip your heart out and show it to you before it stopped beating" kind of stuff.

From a scientific standpoint, I would like to get the opinions of some cardiovascular doctors on the idea of one single nerve controling your heart beating.

Then again, there are many things we can not explain in this world..."There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
 
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http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Links&file=viewlinkinfo&id=122 [Broken]

this vid is pure awesomeness.

"you just hit me in the head" and the visit at the bjj school are pretty good indications of the uselessness of all that pressure point and no touch ****.
 
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inha said:
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Links&file=viewlinkinfo&id=122 [Broken]

this vid is pure awesomeness.

"you just hit me in the head" and the visit at the bjj school are pretty good indications of the uselessness of all that pressure point and no touch ****.
I can't view the video, and have no idea what's going on. Can you describe what happens and the conclusion it leads to? You're saying it debunks the "pressure point" guy somehow?
 
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FredGarvin said:
From a scientific standpoint, I would like to get the opinions of some cardiovascular doctors on the idea of one single nerve controling your heart beating.
I can actually speculate a decent argument in favor of this being possible from what I know about nerves and the brain. There wouldn't have to be any special "undreamed of" thing at work. But your mention of scams and the lengths people go to to make themselves seem special in the martial arts makes me first want to question if it is actually happening at all as claimed.
 
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inha said:
try this instead. basically the dude can't get his stuff to work on anyone besides
his own students.
OK. I get it: he has basically hypnotized his own students into believing he has this power, but can't get the hypnosis to work on people not under his sway.
 

Chronos

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inha said:
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Links&file=viewlinkinfo&id=122 [Broken]

this vid is pure awesomeness.

"you just hit me in the head" and the visit at the bjj school are pretty good indications of the uselessness of all that pressure point and no touch ****.
Bullshido?? :rofl:
 
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Ivan Seeking

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How can people break bricks and two by fours with their hands? I would expect the bone to break first, assuming that its not rigged.
 
Well there was this very strange incident at school

I ws walking wid group of people and i heard [tHuk !]sound ,i thought subconciously that it ws the sound of a bat striking the leather cricket ball[as hard as a baseball],cos a bunch of kids were playing cricket nearby ,they were behind me i couldnt see them
A second later i ducked [for no apparent reason,cos remember i cant see the approaching ball ] and guess what the ball Wwhuushes past ,scraping my head .


EXTRA SENSORY PERCEPTIONS i thought ,but this is just too easy a way to explain such things ,
i havent been trained in martial arts [well would u count a green stripe in taek-wondo],hell i dont even posess a good intuitive power .

do brainwaves[im not talking abt a good idea] have sometin to do wid this .
can some one demystify these brain waves for me please , like their nature ,are they electro magnetic in nature and what produces these brain waves
 
hey that heart stopping technique does actually work , i saw it on tv, the dude is vietnam veteran and the technique he uses is know as DIN-MAK{korean] ,or the death touch.
he claims to hit the pressure points so that the blood flow to the barin stops momentarily which is sufficient to knock the subject out cold .and the subjects were not trained by him

cmon thats beleivable
 

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