Martial arts.

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My original point was what would be good for self defense. There's no rules on the street, so a TKD guy who does a bunch of light kicks on the opponent wouldn't be very good.

Most scenarios you'll find are going to be people trying to punch you. I don't think I've ever seen a street fight where the guy goes for a takedown or tries a judo throw. If someone is trying to attack you on the street, they're throwing punches 99% of the time. If you're trained in boxing, that person is in trouble.

Again, what's going to come is most likely going to be punches. If you want to learn self defense, it's highly unlikely you're going to have to defend an armbar on the street.
JuJitsu is very effective, but on the street, if you're taking someone to the ground and trying to armbar them or something, someone else could come up and just kick you right in the head. It's unpredictable on the street, so you should probably stay on your feet.
Not to mention you may not be able to take down the huge guy attacking you. He may weigh 400 pounds, so it's gonna be really hard to take him down to try your submissions in the first place.

People always talk about this. What is it, eye gouges and groin kicks?
That's why I said jiu jitsu mixed with a more stand up style. Theres a instructor in New York I think that teaches people this type of fighting and its very effective self-defense. If your a boxer and you punch someone to knock them out you could very well kill them, even if you dont kill them charges could be laid upon you. Thats why in most fights for self-defense it's best to make your opponent get the least amount of hits on you and to stop the fight asap. Which you can do more effectively I think in MMA.
On the streets an MMA fighter has a huge technique advantage and more than likely strength. A boxer more than likely only has a slight technique advantage and lots of strength... That's why when boxers fight MMA fighters in a freestyle fight the boxer normally will lose.

Important aspects of a street fight are ground fighting and joint control IMO. This is for self DEFENSE not for FIGHTING back you seem like one of those 'the best defense is a good offense' people but that's not what this thread from 2007 was about.
 
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If your a boxer and you punch someone to knock them out you could very well kill them, even if you dont kill them charges could be laid upon you. Thats why in most fights for self-defense it's best to make your opponent get the least amount of hits on you and to stop the fight asap. Which you can do more effectively I think in MMA.
It's very unlikely you're going to kill somebody with a punch. If someone is trying to attack you, there's no reason for you to go out of your way to try to stop the fight without hurting your opponent. That's how you end up getting hurt or killed yourself.
On the streets an MMA fighter has a huge technique advantage and more than likely strength. A boxer more than likely only has a slight technique advantage and lots of strength
That's a generalization that doesn't make much sense. Why does a MMA fighter have a huge technique advantage over random strangers on the street, while a boxer only has a slight technique advantage?
And a boxer doesn't necessarily have lots of strength. An MMA fighter would be more likely to be stronger since grappling is so important in his game, while boxers don't grapple at all.
That's why when boxers fight MMA fighters in a freestyle fight the boxer normally will lose.
What's a freestyle fight? Anything goes? MMA fighters would be more likely to win that, depending on their style, because they can just exploit one of the many weaknesses of the boxer.
 

seycyrus

If you take anyone out of the element that they trained for they would not perform as well. If you took an MMA into a TKD point sparring match he would not perform as well do to the fact that the tactics are totally different.
The tactics are different because point sparring is MUCH further removed from combat.

contact. If it was an MMA fight he would have destroyed me. Once we went to the ground, my limited experience in this area would have faired very poorly.
Your limited experience on the ground combined with your limited experience in giving and taking full contact blows.
 

seycyrus

Important aspects of a street fight are ground fighting and joint control IMO.
Eh, joint control is overrated unless you are talking about the neck, or are perhaps a bouncer and you have to *walk* a guy outside and already have 4 of your fellow bouncers encircling you.
 
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The fact that you made a statement that simply wasn't true. Are you going to say that someone can't become proficient in a simple type of self defense? You can become proficient in whatever you wish, it does not only have to be something difficult. The person only wanted "some ability to defend myself", he wasn't asking to become a black belt in five easy lessons. Your response was rather arrogant, IMHO.
I am sorry but he's not. There are so many aspects to combat, It's not simple, and it's not easy, It's not something I can really put in words. You have to train your body over and over again. There is no room for mistakes in a self-defense scenario. You have to quick, strong, and highly responsive. Practical knowledge of body mechanics, situation techniques which success depends on how well you preform them. That's not a simple task. It's not like making a mistake in choreography. It's possible that your performance is matter of life and death. You never know what you are up against. You can't equate it to to many activities.

If you want proof, take a self defense class and then defend yourself against a mixed martial artist who has been doing martial arts for only 2 years. Practical experience is lacking. It's something that you have to experience to understand. He's not trying to be rude or arrogant at all.
 
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Evo

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I am sorry but he's not. There are so many aspects to combat, It's not simple, and it's not easy, It's not something I can really put in words. You have to train your body over and over again. There is no room for mistakes in a self-defense scenario. You have to quick, strong, and highly responsive. Practical knowledge of body mechanics, situation techniques which success depends on how well you preform them. That's not a simple task. It's not like making a mistake in choreography. It's possible that your performance is matter of life and death. You never know what you are up against. You can't equate it to to many activities.

If you want proof, take a self defense class and then defend yourself against a mixed martial artist who has been doing martial arts for only 2 years. Practical experience is lacking. It's something that you have to experience to understand. He's not trying to be rude or arrogant at all.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I said you can become proficient in something simple. I have no idea what you're rambling on about. And you're referring to a FOUR YEAR OLD POST.

He was advised to take a self defence course from a qualified instructor. He wasn't wanting to become an expert in martial arts.
 
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If you want proof, take a self defense class and then defend yourself against a mixed martial artist who has been doing martial arts for only 2 years. Practical experience is lacking. It's something that you have to experience to understand. He's not trying to be rude or arrogant at all.
When your shopping at the mall and someone randomly attacks you for whatever reason.

if they know any MMA I would be extremely surprised. If they know any type of martial arts I would still be extremely surprised. Let alone 2 years of full out training.
 
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Well I agree with you sorry! there, personally I rather not assume. lol I've been attacked with a bat before by a deranged lunatic, and maybe that comes from where I live but still. I was lucky I recover from bat to the back of the leg or I would be sorry. I only got that from sparring with my bothers, who aim alot to take out my legs. We all have done training and all love combat. I have 4-6 years experience in martial arts. I do weightlifting, and for different reasons I hold being able to defend yourself well is important. Got out of being attack two more time just being my size, and the person being smaller. I still don't feel safe. I can't say I am confident. I was good in martial arts too. Not all situations come out to a fair fight.

Evo:
The person only wanted "some ability to defend myself", he wasn't asking to become a black belt in five easy lessons.
I am saying you probably do need the same level of experience as a black belt to become efficient in self defensive, Even some black belts are not all that great either. I assume when people say they want to defend themselves; not that they mean they want to defend just enough so that they can defend old men from attacking them....or whatever criteria you want. Regardless.

I completely understand, unless you meant something else by that? but then I don't understand your point to call him arrogant.

Even legitimate self defense classes are no walk in the park, you just don't go to few classes and be satisfied. Krav Maga which might actually help someone, that's like 15 levels or so.


If you want to defend yourself well, you have to put the effort into it. The guy you were arguing with was actually was trying to be helpful. I am not trying to argue with you I am just trying to point that out. I really don't care, if you don't believe me. As long as someone ponders what I say I am happy to present a different perspective.
 
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When your shopping at the mall and someone randomly attacks you for whatever reason.
This notion alone is very wrong.

Where the hell do you live? LA?
 
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I am sorry but he's not. There are so many aspects to combat, It's not simple, and it's not easy, It's not something I can really put in words. You have to train your body over and over again. There is no room for mistakes in a self-defense scenario. You have to quick, strong, and highly responsive. Practical knowledge of body mechanics, situation techniques which success depends on how well you preform them. That's not a simple task. It's not like making a mistake in choreography. It's possible that your performance is matter of life and death. You never know what you are up against. You can't equate it to to many activities.

If you want proof, take a self defense class and then defend yourself against a mixed martial artist who has been doing martial arts for only 2 years. Practical experience is lacking. It's something that you have to experience to understand. He's not trying to be rude or arrogant at all.

:rofl:
 
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I don't really understand what point is trying to be made here. MMA is mixed martial arts. Of course someone who is proficient is several styles is going to fair better in a unregulated event such as a mugging. Any self defense preparation gives an advantage in a street fight. Even if you still lose, you should fair better having at least some idea of how to defend yourself over someone who doesn't know anything.

That being said, having training doesn't mean you will automatically win a fight. Chances are the average mugger is going to be decent at fighting himself. Bar fighting could very well be a style. That crazy guy might be very proficient at beating up random people that cross his crazy path. Having training in martial arts could give you the edge you need or could prove useless. The point of self-defense is to help improve your chances. You may be great at it and beat the crap out of some attacker. At the same time, you may only be good enough to get away.

Everyone has their preference for a style. Trying to argue one over the other is about like arguing politics. No one person is going to be convince everyone in here.
 
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I'm a black belt in Tae Kwan Do and there is no way i'll be able to defend myself with the techniques I've learned. It is more of a show with memorized routines and nothing really practically. In terms of a workout, it is great, but for real life encounters I would encourage you to persue some other form of karate. If you ever had a chance to watch Bruce Lee's biography he talks a lot about being flexible in your style and not just master one type of technique since the real world can be unpredictible. You have to constanting be changing style in order to react properly. Bruce created his own form of karate known as Gung Fu in order to address the practical karate. People like Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Chuck Norris were personally taught Gung Fu by Bruce Lee.

If all else fails you can carry around one of those high powered rifles. I'm sure no one will mess try to mess with you
That's incorrect. He created a style called "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeet_Kun_Do" [Broken]", which translates to "The way of the intercepting fist". The main influence on it is Wing Chun.

Also, and instructors should tell you this, but very very few do.. The techniques you learn in most martial arts classes like Tae Kwan Do, Karate, Kung Fu, Wing Chun, etc, are strictly for muscle memory. Generally speaking they're not supposed to be used in a real life encounter. They're created so that in a bad situation, it takes little to no thought for your muscles to counter an attack. It's muscle memory. It may not be the form/technique that you're taught, but it will be close enough, or an adaptation of what you've been teaching your brain/muscles to do for years. That's the entire concept behind the forms and techniques that you're taught in class. You're not going to get into a fight and stand in the horse stance and go through your forms, that's ridiculous! But your muscles will react basically involuntarily. There are helpful things like your stance (which is usually 60-40 back leg to front leg), because of balance and power, and the concepts behind the forms, like throwing a punch correctly to get the necessary force out of it. For instance, not just swinging your arm to throw a punch, because your arm doesn't have much weight to it, but instead rotating from the hips and drawing your power from your back foot, through your back, and using the rotation of your hips and the transfer of weight from your back to front foot to maximize the force applied to the target. That's an example of the type of information you should get out of doing forms and listening to your instructor (assuming he's a decent instructor).

I'm a black belt in Tae Kwan Do and there is no way i'll be able to defend myself with the techniques I've learned.
So basically, with that statement, you're right, they won't. But the concepts behind the techniques will help you. Learn what the techniques are teaching you, not just the techniques themselves.
 
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Evo

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That's incorrect. He created a style called "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeet_Kun_Do" [Broken]", which translates to "The way of the intercepting fist". The main influence on it is Wing Chun.

Also, and instructors should tell you this, but very very few do.. The techniques you learn in most martial arts classes like Tae Kwan Do, Karate, Kung Fu, Wing Chun, etc, are strictly for muscle memory. Generally speaking they're not supposed to be used in a real life encounter. They're created so that in a bad situation, it takes little to no thought for your muscles to counter an attack. It's muscle memory. It may not be the form/technique that you're taught, but it will be close enough, or an adaptation of what you've been teaching your brain/muscles to do for years. That's the entire concept behind the forms and techniques that you're taught in class. You're not going to get into a fight and stand in the horse stance and go through your forms, that's ridiculous! But your muscles will react basically involuntarily. There are helpful things like your stance (which is usually 60-40 back leg to front leg), because of balance and power, and the concepts behind the forms, like throwing a punch correctly to get the necessary force out of it. For instance, not just swinging your arm to throw a punch, because your arm doesn't have much weight to it, but instead rotating from the hips and drawing your power from your back foot, through your back, and using the rotation of your hips and the transfer of weight from your back to front foot to maximize the force applied to the target. That's an example of the type of information you should get out of doing forms and listening to your instructor (assuming he's a decent instructor).


So basically, with that statement, you're right, they won't. But the concepts behind the techniques will help you. Learn what the techniques are teaching you, not just the techniques themselves.
You're talking to someone that hasn't been here in years.
 
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You're talking to someone that hasn't been here in years.
Lol... Guess I should start reading dates.. :rofl:
 

dlgoff

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Okay. Time to chime in.

Most modern Tae Kwon Do or a modified style of traditional Tae Kwon Do also teach ground grappling, stick fighting, and self defense techniques.
...a Songahm Taekwondo practitioner begins applying the basics they have learned from 1-steps into true sparring, which can be thought of as reflexive responses against an unplanned attack. Essentially, they learn to move beyond the predetermined series of movements they have relied upon in favor of spontaneous movements designed for true self defense.
http://ataonline.com/taekwondo/belts/onesteps.asp" [Broken]
 
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Okay. Time to chime in.

Most modern Tae Kwon Do or a modified style of traditional Tae Kwon Do also teach ground grappling, stick fighting, and self defense techniques.

http://ataonline.com/taekwondo/belts/onesteps.asp" [Broken]
Yeah you can see this come out more often now when TKD people fight against other martial artistst.
 
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drankin

Okay. Time to chime in.

Most modern Tae Kwon Do or a modified style of traditional Tae Kwon Do also teach ground grappling, stick fighting, and self defense techniques.

http://ataonline.com/taekwondo/belts/onesteps.asp" [Broken]
I'm seeing that it is becoming common practice for studios to cross-train in different systems. Makes for a well rounded martial artist. One can enjoy the "art" of a traditional system and incorporate practical real-world fighting technique.

My black belt has a holster on the side :).
 
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