No prefix: Understanding the Total Force on a Mass Attached by Two Springs

In summary, the conversation discusses a problem from the book "Berkely - Waves" by Frank S. Crawford Jr, which involves a mass connected to two identical springs. The total force acting on the mass in the z direction when it is stretched to the right is found using Hooke's law and Newton's second law. The conversation also includes a discussion on two different approaches to solving the problem and an explanation for the sign of the second term in the solution. It is determined that the second term is negative because the right spring is compressed and exerts a force in the negative z direction on the mass.
  • #1
CGandC
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34
1. Homework Statement
The following problem is an example from the book ' Berkely - Waves by Frank S. Crawford Jr '.

Mass 'M' slides on a frictionless surface. It is connected to rigid walls by means of two identical springs, each of which has zero mass, spring constant 'K' and relaxed length 'Ao' .
At equilibrium position , each spring is stretched to length 'A' and thus each spring has tension 'K(A-Ao)' at equilibrium.

Find the total force acting on the mass in the z direction when it is stretched to the right.
note: in the pictures it is written 'a' instead of 'A' , I used 'A' just for convenience
upload_2018-2-8_0-30-5.png


Solution : Fz = -2K(z-A)
Derivation:
upload_2018-2-8_0-34-25.png


2. Homework Equations
Hooke's law : F = -k(x-xo)

3. The Attempt at a Solution
I don't fully understand the derivation to the solution in terms of coordinates, Especially the second term: ' +K(2A-z-Ao) '

Here's my attempt: I redrew the third image as follows:

upload_2018-2-8_1-11-0.png


Solving:

Approach 1:
I used Newtons second law on the mass : Fz = -k(z-Ao)+k(z-(2A-Ao) )

Explanation:
'-k(z-Ao)' because of the left spring , the displacement of the mass from the left spring's relaxation point is 'z-A0'

'+k(z-(2A-Ao) )' because of the right spring ( which is compressed) . the displacement is as it is because 'z' is the coordinate of the mass and ' 2A-Ao ' is the relaxation coordinate of the right spring. hence , I wrote ' z - (2A-Ao) '

However,this approach seems false because: Fz=-k(z-Ao)+k(z-(2A-Ao) ) =-kz+kAo+kz-2Ak+kAo=2k(Ao-A)
and this does not match the solution, so after that I tried another approach:

Approach 2:

Fz = -k(z-Ao)-k(z-(2A-Ao) )

Explanation:

everything's the same as in approach 1 , but I only changed sign on the second expression, from
'+k(z-(2A-Ao) )' to '-k(z-(2A-Ao) )'
using this approach I get the right answer:
Fz = -k(z-Ao)-k(z-(2A-Ao) ) = -2k(z-A)


So the questions are:
1.why was my first approach incorrect? ( isn't the sign on the second term suppost to be positive? [ because the right spring moves the mass to the right ] )
2. even though eventually I got to the right answer using approach 2, was this a 'correct' way to solve the problem?
3. was I right to make the displacement corresponding to the first spring as 'z-Ao' and the displacement regarding to the second spring as 'z-(2A-Ao) ' ?
 

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  • #2
I'll be brief because I'm not very good with english (sorry). I'll consider just the left spring because you seem to have problem with that one only:

## F = -k(z-(2a-a_0)) = -k(x-x_0) ## with ##x = z## and ##x_0 = 2a-a_0##.

Since ##x-x_0 < 0 → F = +k(x_0-x) = +k((2a-a_0)-z) ## and you get the formula from the book

Hope it's clear

CGandC said:
isn't the sign on the second term suppost to be positive

Yes but only if you switch ##x## with ##x_0##, because the general formula is ##F=-k(x-x_0)##, but in this very case ##x-x_0<0## so you can change the sign
 
  • #3
CGandC said:
isn't the sign on the second term suppost to be positive? [ because the right spring moves the mass to the right ]
The initial extension of the right spring is a-a0 to the left, so exerts a force K(a-a0) to the right.
To this is added a displacement (z-a) to the right, so adds a force K(z-a) to the left.
Summing, a force K(a-a0) -K(z-a) = K(2a-z-a0) to the right.
 
  • #4
dRic2 said:
I'll be brief because I'm not very good with english (sorry). I'll consider just the left spring because you seem to have problem with that one only:

## F = -k(z-(2a-a_0)) = -k(x-x_0) ## with ##x = z## and ##x_0 = 2a-a_0##.

Since ##x-x_0 < 0 → F = +k(x_0-x) = +k((2a-a_0)-z) ## and you get the formula from the book

Hope it's clear
Yes but only if you switch ##x## with ##x_0##, because the general formula is ##F=-k(x-x_0)##, but in this very case ##x-x_0<0## so you can change the sign
haruspex said:
The initial extension of the right spring is a-a0 to the left, so exerts a force K(a-a0) to the right.
To this is added a displacement (z-a) to the right, so adds a force K(z-a) to the left.
Summing, a force K(a-a0) -K(z-a) = K(2a-z-a0) to the right.
So I thought about it, and I think the second term : ' -k(z-(2A-Ao) ) ' is negative because the right spring is compressed , this means a force to the right acts on this spring to compress it, and by Newtons third law, it exerts the same magnitude of force but to the negative 'z' direction on the mass , hence the force from this spring on the mass is 'Force on mass from right spring= -k(z-(2A-Ao) ) '
Would you say that my reasoning is correct?
 
  • #5
CGandC said:
So I thought about it, and I think the second term : ' -k(z-(2A-Ao) ) ' is negative because the right spring is compressed , this means a force to the right acts on this spring to compress it, and by Newtons third law, it exerts the same magnitude of force but to the negative 'z' direction on the mass , hence the force from this spring on the mass is 'Force on mass from right spring= -k(z-(2A-Ao) ) '
Would you say that my reasoning is correct?
Looks ok.
 
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Likes CGandC

1. How do two springs affect the movement of a mass?

When a mass is attached to two springs, it will experience oscillatory motion due to the forces exerted by the springs. The mass will move back and forth between the two equilibrium points determined by the springs' stiffness and the mass's weight.

2. How does the stiffness of the springs affect the motion of the mass?

The stiffer the springs are, the faster the mass will oscillate between the two equilibrium points. This is because stiffer springs exert a greater force on the mass, causing it to accelerate more quickly.

3. What is the relationship between the mass and the period of oscillation?

The period of oscillation is directly proportional to the square root of the mass. This means that as the mass increases, the period of oscillation also increases. This relationship is represented by the equation T = 2π√(m/k), where T is the period, m is the mass, and k is the stiffness of the springs.

4. How does the distance between the two springs affect the motion of the mass?

The distance between the two springs, also known as the spring constant, affects the stiffness of the springs and therefore, the period of oscillation. A greater distance between the springs will result in a lower spring constant and a longer period of oscillation.

5. What is the significance of the equilibrium points in this system?

The equilibrium points represent the positions at which the forces acting on the mass are balanced, meaning there is no net force. The mass will oscillate between these points, with the amplitude decreasing over time due to energy dissipation.

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