# Mass caused by a field

1. Aug 28, 2004

### kurious

Is it the case that, for mass being caused by a particle being repelled by a field (the bigger the force of repulsion, the greater the mass),
that the field has to give the relation, for one unit of mass:
force is inversely proportional to
[(distance between particle which has mass and particle that causes field)
x (1 - v^2/c^2)^1/2 ] ?

And what spin would the force carriers of this mass-giving field have?
Would it be spin 2 ?

2. Aug 29, 2004

### marlon

This formula You are "suggesting" is not right, though. The mass-term in mass-generating processes depends offcourse on how this mass is acquired. Just look at how things like effective mass or dynamically generated mass works.

Infinities then have to be "eleminated" by applying renormalization or regularization.

based upon these data one cannot speak about no spin... If you want to determen the spin-value, you are gonna have to look at how these particles interact. i mean what is conserved and what law is not. Then you start doing some group-theory...just like the explanation of the eightfold-way...

You are using the gamma-factor for "relativistic mass" from special relativity. Note that this factor is a consequence of the fact that the light speed is a universal constant. It is a property that is omnipresent in special relativity, yet it has nothing to do with mass-generation in QFT...

regards
marlon

3. Aug 29, 2004

### kurious

Marlon:
You are using the gamma-factor for "relativistic mass" from special relativity. Note that this factor is a consequence of the fact that the light speed is a universal constant. It is a property that is omnipresent in special relativity, yet it has nothing to do with mass-generation in QFT

Kurious:
Special relativity describes how mass increases with increasing speed.
Why should this not relate to the mass a particle has at a certain speed according
to Higgs theory?
These masses should be the same?

4. Aug 29, 2004

### marlon

No, because mass is also generated by interactions with virtual particles for example. So the relation you are proposing is not complete enough, even i think you are forgetting the most important factor.
Usually one calculates the mass of a particle modulo this massterm from special relativity because it is the same for every particle. The way they interact is NOT. This mass-term of special relativity does not learn us anything new in this case, the case of QFT that is.

Offcourse it can not be ignored...

regards
marlon

5. Aug 29, 2004

### kurious

Marlon:
No, because mass is also generated by interactions with virtual particles for example

Kurious:
And this is true whether or not the Higgs theory is correct.

6. Aug 29, 2004

### marlon

Yes, because the way that mass is generated is purely dependent on the way that particles interact.

Offcourse, to be clear i cannot be sure that the Higgs-theory is correct.

regards
marlon

7. Aug 29, 2004

### kurious

A mass such as a proton moving through a volume of particles with which it can exchange force mediating bosons , would get closer to some of the surrounding particles as it moved faster because it would take a bigger force to slow the proton at a higher speed (assuming the force between the proton and the other particles is repulsive and gets greater with decreasing distance between them).The factor 1 / (1 - v^2/c^2)^1/2 could be proportional to the force acting on the proton and it could therefore be an accurate measure of
how the quantized field is behaving at different distances.The mass could be proportional to the force, just as an electron has a mass caused by the force
acting on it as it passes through some crystals.The particles resisting the proton's mass would have to move behind it as it moves forwards and repel the proton to make up for the fact that it has been slowed down a bit.The magnitude of this slowing and speeding up of the proton could be tested experimentally.

Last edited: Aug 29, 2004
8. Aug 29, 2004

### marlon

Possible, yet again very speculative. Consider this : Force equals mass * acceleration. If you want to express the behaiviour of a force in function of the mass then you gotta make sure that you know exactly what the acceleration does during the processes at hand.

Also, once again, keep in mind that the way particles interact also depends on their energy scale. I mean faster moving particles are very likely to behave in a totally different manner as the slower "brothers". Your statement about this proton that comes in with higher velocity is not true in most QFT-cases. You keep thinking to much in terms of the classical Newtonian physics, which does not apply in the cases you are trying to describe. That is why i say all this is nice, yet very speculative...

Newton does not know the concept of force carries.

regards
marlon

9. Aug 29, 2004