Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Mass Ratio Using H+ and H-

  1. Jan 9, 2004 #1
    The experimental mass ratio of proton and electron is 1836.

    Nobody knows why it has to be this number.

    Sir Arthur Eddington did a lot of research on magic numbers of physics. But he did not succeed. One of the magic numbers is the fine-structure constant and another is the mass ratio of proton-electron.

    Using the general form of H+ and H-, one can elucidate the mystery of this number 1836.

    The proton mass is given by


    The electron mass is given by


    If we now assumed the LOE order is 6, i.e., n=6. The ratio is


    Multiply by 2 and take the square root gives 1832, less than 1% of the accepted value. In this calculation, the contribution from continuous is ignored. And other unknown factors are not considered.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 10, 2004 #2


    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Does this same near-coincidence continue with the rest of the baryons? How about the mesons?

    What does this idea have to say about the neutrino flavours?

    Can you make some predictions - e.g. the mass of the Higgs?

    How many particles emerge from your H+H- with exactly zero mass?
  4. Jan 11, 2004 #3
    Only for the Stables


    This ratio might be just a coincidence, because it does not work for neutron-electron.

    The proton is stable, its halflife is beyond 10^33 years. The electron is also stable. But neutrons are stable only in the nucleus of an atom. A free neutron has a halflife of 15 minutes, roughly the attention span of an average person.

    I think, all the three neutrinos flavors (electron's, muon's and tau's) have all been detected. They are now being used to explain the mystery of the solar neutrino radiation. According to theory, the sun is supposed to output so much but only one-third been detected. So the theories think that the neutrinos are changing flavors along the way from the sun to earth. They call this neutrino oscillation.

    I still cannot make any prediction in regard to the Higgs boson because it is not stable and probably it is not traveling in the same timeline as we are. When I say stable, I mean it should be sitting in space long enough for experimenters to see, to touch, to talk and do anything with it.

    I have a hunch that zero-mass happens only when the number of H+ and H- are exactly equal in number and in the order of LOE for each particle configuration. The neutron has mass but its H+ H- are equal in number so I presumed that the order of LOE are not the same.

  5. Jan 11, 2004 #4


    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    But what about the mass ratio of the neutrinos? If your H+H- idea has some merit in explaining the proton/electron mass ratio, it should also explain the neutrino mass ratios. (And if you say they're not known, you could make a prediction and become famous when they're later shown to match your prediction).
  6. Jan 11, 2004 #5
    Not the Tau

    I take that back. The tau neutrino is still not detected.

    Using the table:

    The electron-neutrino is 1H+ and 1H-
    The muon-neutrino is 3H+ and 3H-
    The tau-neutrino is 5H+ and 5H-

    It is clear that the muon's is heavier than the electron's
    the tau's is heavier than the muon's

    these much I know




    Taking your suggestion, I did some calculations based on the assumption that all three neutrinos are in LOE 6.

    The results are: The mass ratio muon's to electron's is 36
    The mass ratio tau's to muon's is 36
    The mass ratio tau's to electron's is 1296

    LOE 2: The ratios are 4 4 16
    LOE 3: The ratios are 9 9 81
    LOE 4: The ratios are 16 16 256
    LOE 5: The ratios are 25 25 626

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2004
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook