# Math tricks to win in casino games?

1. Nov 26, 2004

### eljose

it,s a really interesting subjectwhat would be the most used strategies to win?

I know one,you bet 1 dollar,if you lose you bet 2 if you lose bet 4 and so on,if you win you begin again betting only a dollar

2. Nov 26, 2004

### matt grime

And providing you have an infinite amount of money you're ok.

If you've a fantastic memory you can improve your odds at blackjack, but any reasonably professional outfit will use multiple packs and discard half of the cards (at random) to minimize this possibility. (If you see them, they shuffle together mutliple packs put them in a big holder and then put a partition in about half way - when they reach the partition they throw them away.)

You can win at poker, but that's because you're not playing the house.

3. Nov 26, 2004

### uart

.
Ultimately that strategy leads to you betting the house limit and losing the lot.

The best strategy I know is to take the money you were going to gamble and put it in the bank, wins every time. Either that or take it and spend it on something useful like beer. :)

4. Nov 26, 2004

### Moses

Well, i did not see in my life any mathematician/scientist who was famous at going to gamble and win.

This cuz this thingy is mosty luck game, and in my opinion a waste of energy and time and money, it destroys the economy from micro to marco levels [the last is extreme ]

AND IT SHOULD BE TOTALLY BANNED.

What wrong with hearts in your com, its cool and can make you relax, for free :tongue2:

5. Nov 26, 2004

there was a thing on TV a few weeks ago about the MIT blackjack club. it was a bunch of math & comp-sci people who counted cards & raked in huge $. they noticed that if there were lots of high cards showing then there weren't very many in the deck, and they would bet depending on how many high cards were in the deck. the chances of another high card coming up were low if there was already a bunch showing, etc. (can't remember all the details) they would have people from the club at a whole table, so they'd all bet to maximize their winnings, and then split it afterwards. to keep the casinos from catching on, they had a bunch of people in a rotation so there were different people playing, but they were all in on it. in the end the leader (a comp sci instructor or something) got caught & everyone got banned, so i don't the club is doing their thing anymore. Last edited: Nov 26, 2004 6. Nov 26, 2004 ### krab I agree with Moses. Casinos Love it when stories on gambling strategies are propagated. It keeps hopeful, ignorant people coming back. Similarly, if there were no stories in the news media about lottery winners, then the average joe would never have heard of anyone ever winning one. So he would not be interested in buying a ticket. 7. Nov 26, 2004 ### Tide Do a Google on "gambler's ruin" - it might convince you that you're not likely to make a killing - even in a fair game - if your "opponent" has more chips than you! 8. Nov 26, 2004 ### Physics_wiz This strategy gets destroyed by the casino's rakes. Learning how to calculate pot odds in poker is a must if you want to play it. Of course you're hearing this from a big holdem loser but I lasted longer with pot odds calculations. Anyways, the easiest games to win are home games--ones that you play with your friends. Online or in a casino you're more likely to lose. I don't think gambling is a good idea, because that's just what it is...gambling. Probabilities play a big part and it's just hard because other people are not stupid too. Think about it, if you're making money then someone else is loosing money. Most of the time, people who gamble will know what they're doing. If you have the odds and you bet, they'll see that and not put money in, so you end up losing because of the rakes. 9. Nov 26, 2004 ### Chronos Gambling is for losers, that's why there are so many of them. I know people who are casino regulars. Sometimes they come back winners. Next time they give it all back with interest. Of course they don't talk as much about that part. 10. Nov 26, 2004 ### Hurkyl Staff Emeritus Here's one interesting fact that emphasizes just how bad gambling is: in general, your best strategy for winning$X at the casino is to bet the maximum until you make your target or go bust. (Yes, that means bet everything you have, if allowed)

11. Nov 26, 2004

Card counting at the Blackjack table seemed to help a couple friends of mine walk away winners but it was a such a lot of work practicing the technique I suspect they eventually tired (well, one died and the other was asked to leave...).
For me, the idea of simply having an enjoyable time would be hindered by all of this. Wildcat well drilling, now, that's a gamble worth the addiction.

12. Nov 26, 2004

### robert Ihnot

Moses: Well, i did not see in my life any mathematician/scientist who was famous at going to gamble and win.

Maybe that is not true. In my lifetime, Dr. Edward O. Thorp, famous author wrote in 1962, Beat the Dealer; and also wrote an elementary college text on probabilty; got into Life Magazine explaining how he had used a computer to discover the method of card counting. Up to this time, casinos and players had never figured on any such advantage.

Did Thorp make his money on the book, or at the casino? I guess he might have made some money at the casino, but probably his success as an author contributed more. Anyway, because of him, casinos changed the way they play blackjack.

Last edited: Nov 26, 2004
13. Nov 26, 2004

### robert Ihnot

Hurkly: Here's one interesting fact that emphasizes just how bad gambling is: in general, your best strategy for winning $X at the casino is to bet the maximum until you make your target or go bust. Sure, and casinos fear that. At the Plaza here in Las Vegas, they did allow an 32 year old English "professional gambler" to bet his life assets of$135,300, which included the proceeds of his house and furniture, on red 7 at the Roulette wheel. This got a lot of publicity and the gambler won, doubling his money. Some people claim it was a very bad bet because in the 38 numbers 18 are red and 18 are black, that means that two numbers, green, are reserved for the house. (Of course, they are also going to pick up on the 18 black if no one else is in the game, which I guess they were not.) But the gambler said he made the house cover one of the green slots so that he had a probability of 18/37 = 48.6%.

Generally though, the house wants to make a steady profit as a business. They do not want to risk large losses in case someone gets lucky, regardless of the odds.

The same thing is true of hedgers, who expect to profit from, say, gold mining, or oranges for that matter, or require gold or other precious metals, or oranges in a commercial process. They make their bets on the side opposite their profit side. This is a form of insurance. Business people, you see, tend to think alike.

Last edited: Nov 26, 2004
14. Nov 26, 2004

### robert Ihnot

Krab: Casinos Love it when stories on gambling strategies are propagated. It keeps hopeful, ignorant people coming back.

Steve Wynn, one of the most successful casino owners in Vegas, once, I remember, told a magazine reporter, "System Players! Why we will send a van to their house to pick them up and bring them here!"

Last edited: Nov 26, 2004
15. Nov 26, 2004

### Mk

If that seems intersting to you, there's a book called "Bringin Down the House." It was really good, written by a guy who was in the MIT blackjack club.

16. Nov 27, 2004

### Alkatran

Does anyone find it odd that people get kicked out or banned for using their heads at a blackjack table?

My statistics professor told the class that there was once a small group of college students which went to a casino and (covertly) observed the results from an apparently random game and found that the probability distribution was weighted enough to make a profit.

They were kindly asked to leave a few days later.

17. Nov 27, 2004

### Muzza

No, not really. The casino's mission is to make money.

18. Nov 27, 2004

### fourier jr

well no wonder, they could have cost the casino money. stuff like card-counting isn't illegal, but since it happens on private property the casinos can kick people out for any reason they want, or no reason at all.

19. Nov 27, 2004

You could use math to determine how long it would take to run out to the getaway vehicle after grabbing a handfull of chips...

20. Nov 27, 2004

### robert Ihnot

This has been discussed by players. I believe that the law in Nevada says that they can not throw you out of a casino because of your skill level, but they may do it anyway.

A court case going on, for many years, is about whether the slot machines are run in a random manner, and that customers are enticed to keep playing because they feel they have come close to a win, which was not really true since the machine is programmed.

The judge in this case refused to certify a class action suit because it was not clear what the motivation of the player was, whether he expected to profit, or whether he just thought it was recreation, or whatever other reasons he might have to play.

If skill level concerns you, probably you should play games against other players rather than games against the casino.

Last edited: Nov 27, 2004