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Men Cleverer than Women, Say Scientists

  1. Aug 27, 2005 #1
    Men cleverer than women, say scientists

    ANDREW DENHOLM, Education Correspondent August 25 2005

    MEN have larger brains – and higher IQs – than women, according to a controversial new study.
    In a paper for the British Journal of Psychology, which is bound to reignite the academic row about gender differences, one of Britain's most controversial academics argues that men are more likely than women to win Nobel prizes and gain academic distinction because they are more intelligent.

    [ . . . ]

    Complete article at http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/45664-print.shtml
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 27, 2005 #2

    DM

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    This new claim clashes against the general passing grades between men and women. Women have for years beat us in exams.
     
  4. Aug 27, 2005 #3

    Pengwuino

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    I thought it was the other way around. I mean that bit about the nobel prize thing does kinda confuse me. Last time i saw the list of recipients, it was mainly guys.
     
  5. Aug 27, 2005 #4

    DM

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    Interesting. Now I'm confused.
     
  6. Aug 27, 2005 #5

    selfAdjoint

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    The general result of studies in the US is that women are better at learningmathematics. The ratio of women to men among creative mathematicians is low but rising, and may reasonably attributed to social factors. The number of women historically among the most highly creative mathematicians is close to zero. The usually cited cases, Hypatia, Agnesi, Germaine, Kovalevsi, and Noether are only very good, not to be compared with the likes of Archimedes, Appolonius, Newton, Euler, Gauss, Riemann, Poincare, or Hilbert.
     
  7. Aug 27, 2005 #6
    As usual, there is a confusion of concepts here. He's actually asserting than men have higher I.Q.s by an average of five points, and erroneously jumping from there to saying they are more intelligent. His proof: the greater achievements and nobel prizes, etc. is presented without any qualifications. (He has completely ignored any "old boy network" factors and "glass ceilings" by which women, and minorities for that matter, are prevented from achieving the amount they could.)

    As we all know, I.Q. doesn't test intelligence, only a certain kind of intelligence. The particular kind of intelligence it tests can't be confused with "cleverness" nor can it be linked to success in a carrear. People with prodigious I.Q.s are frequently inept in life.

    The person responsible for this study is widely known, according to the article, to be controversial, due to his links to an organization known to have a Nazi history. It's pretty clear he had a confirmation bias in favor of "proving" ethnic and gender superiorities.
     
  8. Aug 27, 2005 #7
    Here we go again....
     
  9. Aug 27, 2005 #8
    Don't forget pascal and the first calculator.
     
  10. Aug 27, 2005 #9

    Moonbear

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    I just checked the latest issue and the article isn't published yet. When/if it is, I'll look into it and see if it's the crap it sounds like it will be. Zooby said it best; you can't claim women are less creative or less intelligent because they haven't won as many Nobel Prizes; they've had enough obstacles to face just getting a lab let alone getting recognized for their work at that level.
     
  11. Aug 27, 2005 #10

    Pengwuino

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    Yah that is true. I wonder how university enrollments look at the top universities where gender shouldn't really be an issue.
     
  12. Aug 27, 2005 #11
  13. Aug 27, 2005 #12

    Moonbear

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    So, here's a question I've been wondering. How do we know that IQ tests don't just measure those aspects of intelligence that the male test designers think are important because it's what they are good at, and ignore aspects of intelligence that women possess and are good at as unimportant because the male test designers are weak in those areas, so dismiss it?
     
  14. Aug 27, 2005 #13

    Pengwuino

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    What are some examples?
     
  15. Aug 27, 2005 #14

    JamesU

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    this is going nowhere good.....
     
  16. Aug 27, 2005 #15

    Moonbear

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    Of course, I can only speculate on examples, because there's no test comparing such things, but what comes to mind are things like multi-tasking, or working in a noisy environment, identifying subtle (or not so subtle) color differences on paint chips. When you're only talking a difference of 5 points, it doesn't have to be every question on the test that is biased, but just a small subset that are being overlooked and giving an advantage to one gender over the other. How would you react to a test that had just a few questions such as, "Mauve:Pink::_____:Blue?"

    IQ tests include things like spatial relations. It's not a personal weakness for me, but it is something that in general, women seem to not be as good at as men, maybe because they aren't encouraged to build stuff when young, or maybe because of differences in specific brain areas. But, what does that have to do with intelligence that you can mentally rotate a multi-sided structure in your head? Why should that be any different than being able to tell mauve from strawberry from watermelon from carnation from lavender?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2005
  17. Aug 27, 2005 #16

    loseyourname

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    It is really that women are better able to distinguish different colors, or is it just that only women care enough to learn the names for all forty shades between red and blue?

    You do raise an interesting point, though. Exactly what set of cognitive abilities should intersect with the set considered "intelligence" and why? If we simply test people to qualify them for certain positions, then test the qualities required to perform that position. There is no reason to glorify some over others by labelling only certain qualities as "intelligent."
     
  18. Aug 27, 2005 #17

    Moonbear

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    :rofl: I don't really know. I hadn't given a lot of thought to what might be good examples when I posed the question, so just pulled some stuff off the top of my head. There may be no sex differences in those areas either, just perceived ones, or as you put it, maybe men could learn all those colors and just don't care to. Oh, and there's way more than just 40 shades. See, women just know these things. :biggrin: But unless you're working as an interior decorator, is it all that important?
     
  19. Aug 27, 2005 #18

    honestrosewater

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    It is really that men are better able to mentally rotate a multi-sided structure, or is it just that only men care enough to practice rotating multi-sided structures in their minds?
    What I find most interesting is that the solution seems to be choosing things that people can't get better at with practice; Tasks that people are just 'born with' an aptitude for and can't acquire through experience. But when I think of intelligence, being able to get better at a task with practice is one of the most important factors! :confused:
     
  20. Aug 27, 2005 #19
    My box of crayons only had four colors. :cry:

    All the girls had those super-boxes that had >216 colors. At the time I didn't know the difference between yellow-orange, orange-yellow, tangerine orange, pale orange, etc.
     
  21. Aug 27, 2005 #20
    Hence the most-culture-loaded items tend to be the best predictors of g. For example, on the Weschler (WAIS III), the highest g-loading is on the vocabulary subtest.
     
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