# Microsoft is sleazy

Homework Helper
I have recently read an article on Forbes, and I thought I would share:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-pirated-software-searches/

So Microsoft has been reduced to copying and pasting section 7b, and trying to keep it under the table. What are your thoughts about this?

If you are a windows user, how do you feel about the recent update?

As a mac user, I'm looking into the windows bubble laughing for now. I can't believe they are doing this to their market share.

Homework Helper
For those who may wonder what section 7b is about.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement.

I am waiting for windows 11.

What will you do while you wait for it? Will you use windows 10?

Silicon Waffle
What will you do while you wait for it? Will you use windows 10?
I am using windows 7 and intend to jump to 11. I hope that isn't going to hurt any customers or violate any rules.

Gold Member
Still saving money to buy myself a Mac.

ulianjay
How dare Microsoft try to keep people from breaking the law! How incredibly sleazy of them!

Gold Member
How dare Microsoft try to keep people from breaking the law! How incredibly sleazy of them!
This is not the issue. It is the means they use and how they decide for you what your rights are. People ought to know too, that, with very few exceptions, the now-rich countries did not respect copyright nor intellectual properties in their respective earlier days, yet now expect everyone to follow them, at a high cot to developing countries, a cost the rich countries ever had to pay. And breaking a law that is not fair, that benefits microsoft at others' expense is not the end of the world.

billy_joule
Finny
The local MICROSOFT store personnel described WINDOWS 10 as a response to vast customer dissatisfaction with the most recent operating systems. People did not like being "integrated' into a single platform. The store personnel see it as a reversion to earlier format, with start up menus and things like that. Things people like.

I went to the MICROSOFT store to get a slow computer fixed. Had VISTA on it, still does. I won't go through the month and a half, multiple visits to the store and likely a dozen calls ending up in the Phillipines and also India for advanced support, but they never could really fix it, refunded all my $150, kept me enrolled for one year and five devices under their MICROSFT ASSURE service plan,$50, and cleaned up my backup computer. It was a technological disaster for MICROSOFT, but they bent over backwards trying to help. As soon as I mentioned MICROSOFT ASSURE and gave them my number personnel stuck with me through thick and thin. The local store manager was so embarrassed he even gave me a free DVD entitling me to a free Windows 10 upgrade. edit: The Windows 10 did not work, my computer drivers were incompatable with it!

I am not going to touch anything on my computer lest it revert to fighting with me again.

Finny
with very few exceptions, the now-rich countries did not respect copyright nor intellectual properties in their respective earlier days,

Can you explain what that means?

Gold Member
Can you explain what that means?
I was addressing Ulianjay's post on law breakers, meaning ( I understood ) copyright violators. Now-rich countries were able to build themselves up , in part, y not having to pay to have access to intellectual property. It seems unfair to now put an undue burden on poor countries trying to build themselves up by restricting their access to intellectual property. Let them ignore copyright until they are able to compete on a level ground.

Silicon Waffle
Finny

I still don't get. Can you give an example?
I'm not objecting, I just don't understand.

Gold Member
I still don't get. Can you give an example?
I'm not objecting, I just don't understand.

No problem. If these countries have to pay and wait to have access to intellectual property, this makes it harder for them to compete on equal footing. Imagine a car maker in a third-world country having to compete (at least in their own markets) against, e.g., VW without having access to some of the car-producing technology , without access to enough  to buy access to the technology. I propose :let them have free access to the technology until they are strong-enough to compete on an equal footing and after that, have them follow the laws like everyone else.

Silicon Waffle
Homework Helper
I personally wouldn't like this idea:

- Spending an all nighter writing a really long report, which is due the next day.
- Leaving my computer on overnight.
- Having Microsoft send me an automatic update while I'm asleep.
- Waking up the next morning to find out the update has made all the work I just did useless. Just because they feel like it.

There's a serious issue with allowing people to access your hardware and software whenever they want to, especially if the victim has not been informed about the new agreement. No one reads those user agreements anyway right? Let's be honest, people hit accept, and accept their fate blindly. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable letting someone have access to what has become my life whenever they feel like it. Most people spend their days on their computer, right?

It's kind of like prism, but you actually hit 'accept'.

Gold Member
I personally wouldn't like this idea:

- Spending an all nighter writing a really long report, which is due the next day.
- Leaving my computer on overnight.
- Having Microsoft send me an automatic update while I'm asleep.
- Waking up the next morning to find out the update has made all the work I just did useless. Just because they feel like it.

There's a serious issue with allowing people to access your hardware and software whenever they want to, especially if the victim has not been informed about the new agreement. No one reads those user agreements anyway right? Let's be honest, people hit accept, and accept their fate blindly. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable letting someone have access to what has become my life whenever they feel like it. Most people spend their days on their computer, right?

It's kind of like prism, but you actually hit 'accept'.

I guess this is partly the price we pay to have "high-level" technology available to us, technology we know how to use ,but that we do not understand how it works at a more basic level. We do not understand well enough the technology to be able to evaluate the terms of service imposed nor even offered to us.

StevieTNZ
I personally wouldn't like this idea:

- Spending an all nighter writing a really long report, which is due the next day.
- Leaving my computer on overnight.
- Having Microsoft send me an automatic update while I'm asleep.
- Waking up the next morning to find out the update has made all the work I just did useless. Just because they feel like it.

Auto-save in Word? Save documents on a regular basis (advice given in course outlines in some universities), as well as make a backup copy (so you have no excuses for missing the deadline for handing it in).

Ryan_m_b, Silicon Waffle, davenn and 1 other person
Homework Helper
Auto-save in Word? Save documents on a regular basis (advice given in course outlines in some universities), as well as make a backup copy (so you have no excuses for missing the deadline for handing it in).

I'm not sure about the specifics, but if they disable all of the software, then I don't think you have a document anymore? I'm not sure if they let you open files created using pirated software, but then again I'd rather not find out.

It's quite a profitable play on Microsoft's part anyway. Plenty of economic analysis going on there considering they can scavenge revenue from the consequences. Sure they will lose quite a bit of market share when people find out, but I'm sure all the extra sales will make up for it (among other things).

I wonder what the next step in the Microsoft scandal is? They're probably going to be able to ftp files off your computer for all we know.

Gold Member
<Snip>
It's quite a profitable play on Microsoft's part anyway. Plenty of economic analysis going on there considering they can scavenge revenue from the consequences. Sure they will lose quite a bit of market share when people find out, but I'm sure all the extra sales will make up for it (among other things).
<Snip>.

But microsoft has a virtual monopoly/oligopoly. It is just not feasible to do away with millions of dollars worth of software, buy new software from a competitor and retrain all your employees to work with new software. Specially when most of the population ( incl. myself here ) has such a limited understanding of computers and programming.

STEMucator
StevieTNZ
I'm not sure about the specifics, but if they disable all of the software, then I don't think you have a document anymore? I'm not sure if they let you open files created using pirated software, but then again I'd rather not find out.

It's quite a profitable play on Microsoft's part anyway. Plenty of economic analysis going on there considering they can scavenge revenue from the consequences. Sure they will lose quite a bit of market share when people find out, but I'm sure all the extra sales will make up for it (among other things).

I wonder what the next step in the Microsoft scandal is? They're probably going to be able to ftp files off your computer for all we know.
I was under the assumption you were making your Word document in a genuine version of a program, not a pirated version.

I believe if pirated software is found, only that software is disabled.

Homework Helper
I was under the assumption you were making your Word document in a genuine version of a program, not a pirated version.

I believe if pirated software is found, only that software is disabled.

My version is real, but what about millions of other people? I wonder how many people have downloaded their software, and used it without paying?

I wonder if we're all going to have to migrate to a linux kernel just to protect our belongings.

What if you bought a piece of hardware from another country, and Microsoft chooses to disable it because they think it's illegal?

Gold Member
Isn't it possible to get copies of older versions Office 365 for free? I think I have seen, copies of , e.g., Access 2007 or 2010 and other older versions of Office 365 programs available for free.

Homework Helper
Isn't it possible to get copies of older versions Office 365 for free? I think I have seen, copies of , e.g., Access 2007 or 2010 and other older versions of Office 365 programs available for free.

Still, it seems like a gross invasion of privacy. I don't think it's right to be slipping 7b into an agreement, and not really rousing user suspicion about it.

WWGD
StevieTNZ
My version is real, but what about millions of other people? I wonder how many people have downloaded their software, and used it without paying?
Use something like LibreOffice for Windows, or face the consequences. If you fail to turn in an assignment because you can't edit it the day its due, not my problem; or the lecturer or tutor.

What if you bought a piece of hardware from another country, and Microsoft chooses to disable it because they think it's illegal?
Contact Microsoft to make right the situation.

StevieTNZ
Isn't it possible to get copies of older versions Office 365 for free? I think I have seen, copies of , e.g., Access 2007 or 2010 and other older versions of Office 365 programs available for free.
You can obtain such programs (not sure the entirety of Office 365 though) through university programs such as DreamSpark. Usually however access to Microsoft DreamSpark is limited to those students doing computing courses.

Finny
Waking up the next morning to find out the update has made all the work I just did useless. Just because they feel like it.

good point.

If your software is legal, sounds like Microsoft has a legal liability on its hands.

Mentor
I personally wouldn't like this idea:

- Spending an all nighter writing a really long report, which is due the next day.
- Leaving my computer on overnight.
- Having Microsoft send me an automatic update while I'm asleep.
- Waking up the next morning to find out the update has made all the work I just did useless. Just because they feel like it.

There's a serious issue with allowing people to access your hardware and software whenever they want to, especially if the victim has not been informed about the new agreement. No one reads those user agreements anyway right? Let's be honest, people hit accept, and accept their fate blindly. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable letting someone have access to what has become my life whenever they feel like it. Most people spend their days on their computer, right?

It's kind of like prism, but you actually hit 'accept'.
You can set if and when Microsoft sends and installs updates, you decide if you want it automatic or that they have to ask your permission first and you manually allow downloads and installs when it's convenient.

Sounds like you have yours set to automatic, I have mine set to manual.

Gold Member
Still saving money to buy myself a Mac.

And Macs are better how?

Silicon Waffle
Gold Member
And Macs are better how?
By actually working?

Maybe it's my humble experience but I've never seen a Mac user with popping blood vessels in his forehead and chunks of torn out hair torn in balled-up fists.

William White
Gold Member
By actually working?

Maybe it's my humble experience but I've never seen a Mac user with popping blood vessels in his forehead and chunks of torn out hair torn in balled-up fists.

Never had a PC that didn't work, although my IPad did suffer from planned obsolescence.

There's no reason to pay 10x times as much for a Mac. Don't like windows? Go Linux.

Gold Member
Never had a PC that didn't work, although my IPad did suffer from planned obsolescence.

There's no reason to pay 10x times as much for a Mac. Don't like windows? Go Linux.
You need a certain level of sophistication and advanced knowledge of computers to do a reasonably -smooth jump, don't you?

Gold Member
You need a certain level of sophistication and advanced knowledge of computers to do a reasonably -smooth jump, don't you?

Not at all, it's much simpler than people assume: this seems to have some good information http://www.pcworld.com/article/248989/linux-a-getting-started-guide.html

For what you'd get out of a 2500 dollar mac, with a bit more research, you could put together your own equivalent Linux system for about 1/5th of that cost.

Or if you wanted a laptop you could grab a 500 dollar windows laptop and convert it to Linux. Although I still personally like windows, and would just leave it windows in that case. Still far cheaper than getting a mac.

I don't understand how apple still has any of the PC market share: they cost more, do less, and are less configurable.

Gold Member
Don't like windows? Go Linux.
Linux is not for the faint of heart. Unless things have changed dramatically, you got to do it all yourself, and they're notorious for not documenting stuff.

This is the 21st century. We should be able to operate computers without having to moonlight as an IT.

I guess that's the niche that tablets have filled.

Gold Member
Maybe a better idea then to partition the drive and install Linux in one of the partitions. I need to figure out how to do it. Or maybe running it in a virtual machine, don't know either how to set it up. I got a good amount of 'book-learnin' without much actual experience.

Gold Member
are less configurable.
To many, this is a plus, not a negative.

I should not have to call tech support just to get my network printer to talk to my computer. It's a computer - it's smarter than me about these things. It should find my printer for me! (And, what's more, it shouldn't forget about my printer every time I just look at it funny.)

Ryan_m_b
Gold Member
Linux is not for the faint of heart. Unless things have changed dramatically, you got to do it all yourself, and they're notorious for not documenting stuff.

This is the 21st century. We should be able to operate computers without having to moonlight as an IT.

I guess that's the niche that tablets have filled.

I haven't ever felt like I was moonlighting as an IT, I guess it depends on someones computer literacy. Owning a windowsPC or linuxPC isn't hard.

Maybe a better idea then to partition the drive and install Linux in one of the partitions. I need to figure out how to do it.

You can start off doing dual boot machines. That way you keep your old OS.

To many, this is a plus, not a negative.

I don't understand how, it's silly not having basic external connections without buying some proprietary converter..etc.

Enigman
Gold Member
I haven't ever felt like I was moonlighting as an IT
Of course not. To those who know how, it's easy.

But imagine having to set the timing belt on your car every time you gas it up. It's easy for a mechanically-minded person, but to most, a car is a tool, not a hobby.

WWGD