Military is pulling choppers out of the bone yard

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Main Question or Discussion Point

The military is pulling retired helicopters out of a huge storage facility in Southern Arizona. Known as the bone yard to locals, the facility contains thousands of retired aircraft from all of the military services including the National guard.

The Super Stallion, and Sea Dragon choppers are being refurbished and sent to Iraq. The Bush Administration first forced our soldiers into providing themselves with hillbilly armored Humvees and now we are sending them 30 year old helicopters.

If this is what results from giving tax cuts to the wealthy, it is time to rethink our priorities.

Check the third picture in this link. (please do not look at the Paris Hilton Pic) Our troops deserve better. :grumpy:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/23/94820/8149
 
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Answers and Replies

  • #2
kyleb
A little dark humor from the comments section there:
Who knew that the comparisons with Vietnam...

included using the same equipment.
 
  • #3
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I stand by my position that, if America really wanted a stable Iraq, they shouldn't be taking the "Hi-Tech" "overwhelming firepower" routes anyways.
 
  • #4
Pengwuino
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... i guess this is shocking... considering they take old aircraft and ships out of mothball yards all the time....

I believe recently the marines asked for a WW2 battleship to be brought out of mothball to support them on beach landings since newer battleship's guns don't have enough range and sending cruise missiles for a 30 mile attack is overkill and expensive.

I guess even the most common procedures can be used as an attack on the administration....
 
  • #5
Pengwuino
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Smurf said:
I stand by my position that, if America really wanted a stable Iraq, they shouldn't be taking the "Hi-Tech" "overwhelming firepower" routes anyways.
Then what should we use? Swords and 'barely enough firepower'?

Oh, canadians.... i get it.
 
  • #6
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Pengwuino said:
... i guess this is shocking... considering they take old aircraft and ships out of mothball yards all the time
Do you have any links to support retired aircraft being sent into combat?

I believe recently the marines asked for a WW2 battleship to be brought out of mothball to support them on beach landings since newer battleship's guns don't have enough range and sending cruise missiles for a 30 mile attack is overkill and expensive.
Ahh yes it is all over the news about the Marines wanting WWII battleships. :tongue2:

Man where did you get that from? They use air cover to support landings, and they sure as hell aren't making any landings in Iraq.

The last Battleship recommissioned was the New Jersey in 1992. Ronald Reagan thought it would be helpful to use it to shell Lebanon, it wasn't. After several months one of the main gun turrets blew up killing the gun crew.
 
  • #7
Pengwuino
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/bb-61.htm

Fairly common. You would like to just modernize massive 10,000 ton+ ships instead of creating entirely new ones whenever possible... saves money and all.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ollienorth/on20050415.shtml

And they do not like to use air cover to support landings. The best close-combat air support the US has is the A-10 which ... sadly... is starting to be seriously considered for phasing out. Battleships on the other hand, can put muuuuuuuuuuuuch more firepower on many more sites then an airplane can.... and can do it cheaper... albeit less accurately.

The DDX ship mentioned is also a light, high-tech ship being made... small guns... but if i remember correctly, the design looks pretty cool and futuristic.
 
  • #8
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Pengwuino said:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/bb-61.htm

Fairly common. You would like to just modernize massive 10,000 ton+ ships instead of creating entirely new ones whenever possible... saves money and all.
The link above was a nice historical look at WWII battle ships, but supports nothing that is current.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ollienorth/on20050415.shtml

And they do not like to use air cover to support landings. The best close-combat air support the US has is the A-10 which ... sadly... is starting to be seriously considered for phasing out. Battleships on the other hand, can put muuuuuuuuuuuuch more firepower on many more sites then an airplane can.... and can do it cheaper... albeit less accurately.
The second link is primarily wishful, but not necessarily wise thinking by Oliver North. The link doesn't support anything about current or even recent ship recommissions. There have been none.

My thread was about how our troops are suffering and dying to a great extent due to the tax cuts, no more no less.

If a person can't see this by looking at the pictures in the link, there is nothing else I can say.

But I personally do not feel that our soldiers should have to drive around Iraq in vehicles like the one in the picture with the garbage bin in the back being used as a gun turret. That is totally lame!!! :grumpy:

If we have to pull 30 year old choppers out of the bone yard so that the likes of Donald Trump and Paris Hilton can eat more caviar and buy more jewlery, someone has lost track of their priorities.
 
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  • #9
Pengwuino
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Well, get back to me when your ideology stops clouding your judgement and you read a book or two on military history and you cut out the non-sex related paris hilton jokes.
 
  • #10
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Pengwuino said:
Well, get back to me when your ideology stops clouding your judgement and you read a book or two on military history and you cut out the non-sex related paris hilton jokes.
So from your point of view it appears that providing American soldiers with modern equipment is "clouded judgement".

I have read many books on military history. I started reading them about 1955. When did you start? No book on military history applies to the current situation.

I was not joking about Trump and Hilton, I was dead serious.
 
  • #11
kyleb
I never would have guessed that the fall of the neo-cons would be so depressing to watch.
 
  • #12
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kyleb said:
I never would have guessed that the fall of the neo-cons would be so depressing to watch.
I've had some of that same sense the last few weeks. Not quite depression, more like "Oh God, even when they crash into the ground they drag the rest of us down." It will get better, eventually.
 
  • #13
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I can't decide what to make of the original post. I googled for more news and found this:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/08/hlr-ch53x-helicopter-program-moves-toward-milestone-b-approval/index.php [Broken]

And the link below had what appeared to be useful information:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2741511p-9179104c.html [Broken]
 
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  • #14
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edward said:
The Super Stallion, and Sea Dragon choppers are being refurbished and sent to Iraq. The Bush Administration first forced our soldiers into providing themselves with hillbilly armored Humvees and now we are sending them 30 year old helicopters.
How old is the F/A-18 A/C/D or how about the f-16 and f-15? The military uses a lot of old aircraft all the time. America has the largest military budget in the world and I believe Bush has done nothing but increase military spending....

I don't know for sure but if I remember correctly, Clinton made major cuts on military spending.....

So my point is, where do you come off saying that tax cuts are responsible for this? And why is this such a bad thing? Do you have any reasonable argument to suggest that these older aircraft cannot be made serviceable? I believe civilian airliners use the Arizona desert for aircraft preservation as well.
 
  • #15
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kyleb said:
I never would have guessed that the fall of the neo-cons would be so depressing to watch.
You mean you really expected them to go out peacefully? I for one totally expected this.
 
  • #16
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Smurf said:
I for one totally expected this.
You expected what? What do you suppose is happening that you're seeing?
 
  • #17
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edward said:
So from your point of view it appears that providing American soldiers with modern equipment is "clouded judgement".
That is a ultra-simplistic point of view, don't you think?
 
  • #18
kyleb
pattylou said:
I've had some of that same sense the last few weeks. Not quite depression, more like "Oh God, even when they crash into the ground they drag the rest of us down." It will get better, eventually.
I don't mean depressing like my dog just died or such, but depressing like watching a baseball game where the pitcher just can't manage to get anything over the plate.
Smurf said:
You mean you really expected them to go out peacefully? I for one totally expected this.
I fully anticipated the kicking and screaming, I just expected it to be fun to watch.
 
  • #19
Ivan Seeking
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Does anyone remember when the Monica Lewinski issue was supposed to be important?
 
  • #20
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kyleb said:
I fully anticipated the kicking and screaming, I just expected it to be fun to watch.
Because you weren't thinking of it in a moral way. You were thinking of it like "Us vs Them" and they're going to lose, so you expected to enjoy it. Not realising we're actually talking about people's lives here. Lots of people make that mistake, ever since the media video game-ized war.
 
  • #21
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Ivan Seeking said:
Does anyone remember when the Monica Lewinski issue was supposed to be important?
Who IS Monica Lewinski? I know I've heard her name. Just don't know who she is, is she the ***** who gave clinton a blowjob in the oval office? Or some other celebrity that just spent a little too much time in the spot light?
 
  • #22
Ivan Seeking
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Lewinski, a Portland girl btw, is who you're thinking of - the White House page. It was a huge scandal, you know, of great national significance. :rolleyes:
 
  • #23
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meh. I think I was still in africa at the time. Didn't really care. The only thing I remember about it was seeing this really gay-looking guy standing outside the white house with an 'Impeach Clinton' sign. (liberal media my ass! No one ever reports on the "Impeach Bush" protestors)

I think he was just sexually frustrated because he was 30 and still fighting his homosexuality. I mean, I'd be pissed too if I could never get it up with a woman and then the president just comes wandering along and gets sucked off during a press meeting.
 
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  • #24
356
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Having said that, I guess I could see how 'the president's blowjob' could be of national significance.

Hey! I just got a great idea for a new parody.
 
  • #25
kyleb
Ivan Seeking said:
Does anyone remember when the Monica Lewinski issue was supposed to be important?
I wasn't suggesting that this issue in itself is a big deal, but rather commenting on the reaction in this thread as well as the general state of things at the moment.
 

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