Model of Galactic Black Hole Candidates

In summary: MECO, has stated that the velocity of an object falling into a black hole approaches 'c' relative to an observer hovering, with rockets, a constant Schwarzschild 'r' coordinate. He is correct, and I understand that the "inventor" agrees with this. However, some proponents of MECO have then leapt to the conclusion that the geodesic of an object falling into a black hole is null. This is incorrect, and one cannot infer that the geodesic is null from the correct statement that the velocity of the infalling particle approaches 'c'.To clarify, the nature of the Lorentz interval between two points on the geodesic (time
  • #1
pervect
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In another thread, Nerid mentions

The Magnetospheric Eternally Collapsing Object (MECO) Model of Galactic Black Hole Candidates and Active Galactic Nuclei.


also at http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0602453

This apparently has been published, though I'm not positive if where it was published was a peer-reviewed journal.

I thought I would comment on it from a GR perspective since there appears to be some interest in the topic.

For black holes to exist, gravity must be able to do what no other force of nature can do; namely, to accelerate the physical three-speed of a finite mass to exactly the speed of light. But this means that horizon crossing geodesics, in realistic coordinates, would become null rather than timelike.

This quote strikes me as being seriously confused. Horizon crossing geodiscs for infalling matter of positive rest mass are definitely not null geodesics!

[add]
True statement:

The velocity of an object falling into a black hole approaches 'c' relative to an observer hovering, with rockets, a constant Schwarzschild 'r' coordinate. As the hovering observer getrs closer and closer to the event horizon, the velocity of the falling object get's closer and closer to 'c'.

False statement:

The geodisic of an object falling into a black hole is null. One simply cannot infer that the geodesic is null from the above true statements, even though the limiting velocity is 'c'.
[end add]

The nature of the Lorentz interval between two points on the geodesic (time-like, null, or space-like) can be calculated in any coordinate system where the metric is not singular at the horizon. This excludes standard Schwarzschild coordinates if the calculation is done rigorously, as g_tt = 0 and g_rr is infinite. One can show however, that geodesics have the expected timelike behavior in the limit as one approaches or leaves the event horizon even in Schwarzschild coordinates.

In addition, one can use anyone of several well-behaved coordinate systems such as Eddington-Finklestein or Krusak-Szerkes to eliminate the coordinate singularity at the event horizon entirely, and show that the trajectory is purely timelike, as expected.

See for instance MTW, "Gravitation", pg 824 for a solution for r parameterized in terms of the arbitrary parameter n for an object falling at rest from a starting height r_max into a black hole.

r = (1/2) r_max (1 + cos(n))
tau = sqrt(r_max^3/8M)*(n+sin(n))

The region of interest is 0<n<Pi, during which it can be seen that proper time tau is finite, and increasing, and r is decreasing from r_max to zero.

The fact that the proper time exists shows that the geodesic is timelike, though this can be confirmed by detailed caluclations.

I've omitted the solution for the Schwarzschild 't' coordinate for the geodesic as it is rather difficult to type in - only if there is serioius interest will I go into more detail.

[add]
Note that as E_0 is constant for an object following a geodesic in the Schwarzschild metric, g_00 dt/dtau will be constant. This should allow anyone sufficiently interested to solve for the expression for t, though it would certainly be easier just to look it up in the reference.
 
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  • #2
"Wheeler was wrong" [sic]

Hi, pervect, I plan to avoid debunking in this forum, but perhaps I can get away with a modest gloss:

pervect said:
In another thread, Nerid mentions

"[URL Magnetospheric Eternally Collapsing Object (MECO) Model of Galactic Black Hole Candidates and Active Galactic Nuclei.
[/URL]

...

This [abstract] strikes me as being seriously confused. Horizon crossing geodesics for infalling matter of positive rest mass are definitely not null geodesics!

Incredible as it may seem, the claim has been made (repeatedly) by one of the "inventors" of the MECO proposal that the world line of a test particle falling into a Schwarzschild hole becomes null as it crosses the horizon. This is of course incorrect, as you and I and in fact any decent student of an advanced undergraduate gtr course know very well, but the authors of the eprint in question may have acquired this misconception from him. This is pretty basic stuff; speaking for myself, I tend to stop reading as soon as I see an error of this magnitude.

Chris Hillman
 
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  • #3
Note that 't' is finite for all values of n, including n = Pi, and does not become infinite at the event horizon. This is because 't' is not a proper time, but rather a coordinate time.
[end add]

Overall, the MECO model appears to be an interesting alternative to the standard model of black holes. However, further research and analysis is needed to fully understand and validate this model.
 

1. What is a "Model of Galactic Black Hole Candidate"?

A "Model of Galactic Black Hole Candidate" is a theoretical construct used to explain the behavior of black holes within our galaxy. It takes into account factors such as mass, spin, and accretion rate to predict the properties and behavior of these black holes.

2. How are these models created?

Models of galactic black hole candidates are created using a combination of observational data and theoretical calculations. Scientists use data from telescopes and other instruments to gather information about the behavior of black holes, and then use mathematical equations and computer simulations to create a theoretical model that can explain these observations.

3. What are the main components of a "Model of Galactic Black Hole Candidate"?

The main components of a "Model of Galactic Black Hole Candidate" include the mass of the black hole, its spin, and the rate at which it is consuming matter (accretion rate). Other factors such as the presence of a surrounding disk of gas and dust, as well as the effects of gravity and electromagnetic radiation, are also taken into consideration.

4. How accurate are these models?

Models of galactic black hole candidates are constantly being refined and updated as new data becomes available and as our understanding of black holes improves. While they are not perfect, they are generally considered to be accurate representations of the behavior of black holes within our galaxy.

5. What is the significance of these models?

Models of galactic black hole candidates are important for helping us understand the behavior and properties of black holes, which are some of the most mysterious and powerful objects in the universe. These models also help us make predictions and test our understanding of the laws of physics in extreme environments.

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