Can ammonium nitrate be safely used as a water pigment in dioramas?

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In summary, When I used ammonium nitrate (containing "molten" nitrate) as snow in a diorama, I noticed blue spots on the fertilizer. After researching what the blue spots were, I found out that they were Tetraaminecopper(II) Nitrate. I dissolved the nitrate in water and placed a few droplets on a copper plate, and the blue spots appeared. I'm not sure what happened, but I'm going to use the nitrate as a water pigment in future dioramas.
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Corruptor
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Hello! I’m new to this forum and I’ve been looking around for the right spot to post this. My apologies if it still ended up in the wrong place...

When it comes to chemistry I’m pretty new about pretty much everything. While using some copper plates in a diorama and using fertilizer (containing ammonium nitrate) as snow I have observed a few blue spots on the fertilizer (I had to sprinkle the area with water so the “snow” would stick, so automatically a small amount of fertilizer got dissolved in the process).

As I said, I am a complete newbie about anything chemistry related, but I tried to find out what that blue stuff was. Ended up separating the ammonium nitrate from all the impurities that are added in the fertilizer and I placed a few droplets of dissolved nitrate on a small plate of copper. Lo and behold, it started turning blue. After a session of googling I ended up with the blue stuff being described as Tetraamminecopper(II) Nitrate. However the article described the ammonium nitrate as “molten”.

Now, a molten nitrate basically means simply dissolving it in water, dissolving and also boiling it or something completely different? If what I have obtained is nothing harmful I’ll proceed to use it as a water pigment in future dioramas, however I do not know one bit of what happened for me is that Tetraaminecopper thing, as I read that it is a shock sensitive. I’m not too fond of placing anything explosive in miniature scenes I may end up selling.

Thank you for reading.

P.S. if the discussion falls into the category of “illegal substance synthesis” or similar feel free to delete it, I do not want to cause any inconveniences.
 
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  • #2
In water it is dissolved, molten would mean heating it up till it melts. I wouldn't try it, as ammonium nitrate can explode (google for ammonium nitrate disasters).

Not sure what you really got. Tetraaminecopper is one of possible products, but in the presence of water it is more likely to get hexaaquacopper - while their colors are slightly different, they are both bluish.

There are definitely better blue pigments than copper based salts. They are toxic (not very, it is mostly just about not eating them and washing your hands, so you are most likely safe) and can be soluble and hygroscopic enough to make the color flow.
 
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  • #3
Borek said:
[snip]
There are definitely better blue pigments than copper based salts. They are toxic (not very, it is mostly just about not eating them and washing your hands, so you are most likely safe) and can be soluble and hygroscopic enough to make the color flow.

If you are constructing dioramas as art, not as chemistry experiments, I advise visiting an arts and crafts store that sells acrylic paints and related supplies. Acyrilics are water based, dry rapidly, are permanent, light-fast and generally non-toxic. Acrylic paints are essentially water based glue plus pigments and additives.

Many artists use metal supports such as polished aluminum, copper and stainless steel. I prefer MDF (medium density fiberboard) panels sealed in gessoe to save money and reduce weight. I often shop at Blick's for professional supplies https://www.dickblick.com -- not an endorsement but one example of many providers.

For snow, consider using titanium dioxide combined with one or more additives for texture such as flakes, tiny beads, white gesso or even art paper scraps. A painterly trick is to add a touch of blue pigment to "snow" for a more natural appearance. I often use Prussian blue but you should experiment with various pigments to suit your designs. Copper compounds appear in many different acrylic paints and colors. You can also find spectacular metallic paints including Copper, Silver, Bronze, Gold.

Art "assemblies" often include found objects but a conscientious artist avoids toxic substances. Fertilizers are constructed for growing plants not permanent assemblies such as dioramas.
 
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I’ll get rid of the crystals and the nitrate in general and stick to conventional materials. Thank you for the replies!
 
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  • #5
Borek said:
I wouldn't try it, as ammonium nitrate can explode (google for ammonium nitrate disasters).

Another problem is decomposition to N2O (laughing gas).
 
  • #6
DrStupid said:
Another problem is decomposition to N2O (laughing gas).
Which is also explosive... and I know of one case where it was used to commit suicide. (seems like it would be a comfortable approach.:cry:)
 
  • #7
When I see folks talking about high nitrate fertilizer type substances, I am vividly reminded of the Texas fertilizer and feed store blast. There were lots of people tossing mis-information around, that "a missile had struck it" and other such nonsense, and I had a lot of debunking to do because as a Navy Firefighter we specifically played with similar situations, under Very Controlled Conditions and still stood way back behind/beneath shelters.

What folks attributed as a missile incoming was actually the major vapor trail that was coming off from the primary burn on the tanks; The burning nitrates were not getting full heat nor oxygenation to set off the full secondary burn, it was self suffocatig on the edges yet stayed hot as it trailed for a long distance, and I saw in the films, as the tank pressure started upping, and the offgassing was happening faster than it could actually burn off, there was an unburnt plume that happened to finally reflash and travel very fast Up the pre-heated and now oxygen mixed vapor trail creating a shock wave as it went, a rather linear-focus (planar) shock wave back to that tank. That is what then set off the major detonation. It is possible for that amount of nitrates to burn off, if it is allowed to, in open air, and no reflash potential...which is very unlikely.

That was evident in the films at the time, although it would take someone doing slow motion photography that is an actual firefighter who understands what a detonative reflash will do to a (barely) controlled burn and release high explosive: that shock wave was enough to destabilize the thermal balance and THEN the steel did it's crescendo shriek of tearing itself apart, releasing the shockwave of the rest of the detonating mass of material. Similar to what all firefighters deal with in what is called Overflash, where the super-hot fuel gases meet fresh oxygen in a new room, and flash across the overhead. Very Dangerous situation, and very similar to what occurred in that Texan Tragedy.

But it was very hard to get untrained, unscientific, very political and conspiracy theory type folks to understand that the flame rushing across the camera view did not have a missile attached to it, as it would have shown as clearly as the flame and the visible compression wave made evident by it's change in the refractive index of the air just due to overpressure. A missile would have shown similar type evidence of a different form had there been one.

In the Navy, we were shown how innocent mixes of normal substances made some rather nasty combinations, and had to train for ones which we Might end up running into. I happened to particularly enjoy Firefighter Training School in the Navy, it was a real major set of learning experiences that set themselves (for good and ill) permanently in my mind. Having bombs go off on the ship you are stationed on makes one proactive WAY before it became popular after Y2K..

(Edit: I am not one for doing vids or the like, rather limited in what I am able to do anymore due to having rebuilt neck. If I worked with the programs I would be able to dissect such videos and tag them up with all sorts of notes to this and that reference. Not trying to be disrespectful, but there are other ways of getting information across, and while anecdotal-seeming, one can pass a lot of pure physics in a farm-yard setting. Did my time as a Navy Fireman/Hull-Tech, welder, pipe-fitter and primary on damage control and trained for NBC warfare decon and testing, all sorts and classes of fire and was even silver suit hoseman with injector nozzle (stab-thru) for Helicopter Crash Crew...so while I may not have book, chapter and verse, I went out there and DID IT instead. No disrespect meant for those who prefer the notations)
 
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I don't know about over in the Land of The Free, but here in UK, we need a license to even possesses this stuff.
 
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@Merlin3189 we recently had a truck blow up on a back road as the truck developed a brake fire and it was carrying full load of ammonium nitrate fertilizer. Driver lost his life making sure it happened away from people taking truck down uninhabited backroad, warning emergency response folks, and died trying to put the fire out.

Here in US it is fairly freely bought, although there are a lot more people watching the purchases than one would normally expect, just for those nefarious reasons. But most Corp Farms apply it by the ton to their fields.
 
  • #10
"... but here in UK, we need a license to even possesses this stuff" in bulk.

Yup, mixed with farm-diesel and other materials that are 'innocently' available, it can make much trouble...

Similar caution now applies to the nitrate/nitrite used for food pickling. You may buy little baggies there-of, but sufficient to preserve eg the meat content of a chest-freezer will so draw attention, its acquisition disparaged...

Sadly, this stymied a fun SciFi story I was writing, as there were no reasonable grounds for any neighbour to have a big tub of the stuff...
;-(
 
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  • #11
Several years ago here in the U.S., it was reported that the bags of nitrate fertilizer had a new ingredient to block the explosive reaction with kerosene (diesel fuel).

As I recall, this was done shortly after a truck load of the mix was detonated in the underground garage of a Federal Government building. That got the Government upset enough to essentially decree that 'You either make it impossible or stop selling fertilizer.'

That did get a few of the farmers upset though, that was one of the methods they used to remove tree stumps!

Cheers,
Tom
 

1. Can ammonium nitrate be safely used as a water pigment in dioramas?

The safety of using ammonium nitrate as a water pigment in dioramas depends on the precautions taken during handling and the amount used. Ammonium nitrate is a chemical compound that can be hazardous if not handled properly. It is important to wear gloves and a mask when handling it and to avoid inhaling the dust. Additionally, it is recommended to use small amounts and to mix it with water thoroughly before use.

2. What are the benefits of using ammonium nitrate as a water pigment in dioramas?

Ammonium nitrate is a highly soluble compound, which makes it ideal for creating realistic water effects in dioramas. It is also affordable and readily available. When mixed with water, it creates a clear and transparent solution, making it perfect for creating the illusion of depth in water scenes.

3. Are there any alternatives to using ammonium nitrate as a water pigment in dioramas?

Yes, there are several alternatives to using ammonium nitrate as a water pigment in dioramas. Some common alternatives include acrylic paints, resin, and specialized water effect products. These alternatives may be safer and easier to work with, but they may also be more expensive.

4. Can ammonium nitrate be mixed with other pigments or materials?

Yes, ammonium nitrate can be mixed with other pigments or materials to create different effects. For example, mixing it with blue acrylic paint can create a more realistic water color. However, it is important to note that mixing it with certain materials, such as oil-based paints, can be hazardous and should be avoided.

5. How long does it take for ammonium nitrate to dry in a diorama?

The drying time of ammonium nitrate in a diorama depends on the amount used and the humidity of the environment. In general, it can take anywhere from a few hours to a day for ammonium nitrate to fully dry. It is important to allow it to dry completely before adding any additional layers or details to the diorama.

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